Tuning advice, please!
 

I'm having a hard time getting broadheads to hit where my field points do. I shoot a 2004 Bowtech Patriot VFT, Gold Tip XT 5575, 125gr Montecs. I put a new Winner's Choice on my Bowtech this Summer. I got it close to bullet hole on paper, then just shot a bunchto break in the string and get peep set. Went back to paper andgot it slight tear high, but decided it was close enough to tune broadheads to field points. Well, BH were nearly a foot lower than FP@ 40 yds, so I moved the rest up. It tightened the groups some(now 8" apart @ 40yds), but they are still lower than FPs, and the rest ishigher than the nock causing the arrow to point slightly up. BH arrow flight is good with 4" groups@ 40yds and I'm hitting where I'm aiming, but not with FPs. I'm OK with leaving it and being satisfied for this season, but should I be concerned over the upward angle of the arrow on the rest? If I try to match FPs, it's only going to get worse. Should I move it back to the original setting and do bareshaft? This is something I'll likelywork onin October after elk season, but if anyone has a fairly easy suggestion, please let me know and I'll give it a go this week.

RE: Tuning advice, please!
 

http://www.broadheadtests.com/TUNING.html

This may help you, it's hard to say for sure though without being there to see for myself.

RE: Tuning advice, please!
 

To set center shot I took two arrows one on the rest in the raised position and the other on the right hand side of the riser. I measured the distance between the arrows close to the string and out near the points then I adjusted the sight until the measurement was the same on both ends of the two arrows. Went to the paper tuner and shot one shot--- PERFECT BULLETHOLE. Sometimes it takes a little fine tuning to get PBH,s but it make it a lot easier. Next step would be WALKBACK TUNING.

GGBH

RE: Tuning advice, please!
 

You may be able to fix that by tiller tuneing your bow .
But first I would make sure your cam was in proper time .
Someone on here will know where that is with your cam .
Cam timeing drasticly affects up-down nock travel on a single cam bow .

RE: Tuning advice, please!
 

Thanks. Tiller will bemy next attempt. Iplan tomake a list of all the current settings on the rest and limb bolts, then move the rest back to it's original position and play with tiller to see if that solves the problem. Worse case scenario, I move everything back to where it is now and go hunting.

RE: Tuning advice, please!
 

GGBH, Sorry but I can't grasp what it is you did.....I can't figure out the arrows or why a sight adjustment would change anything in regards to the arrow as it sets in the bow???? I am intrigued by any archery tuning knowlege though....can you draw a picture for this dumb country boy?

RE: Tuning advice, please!
 

Did you replace both the string and cable? If not, I suspect that your cam is either over or under rotated because of a tight new string and an old stretched cable. Did your draw weight change when you added the new string? Replacing the cable (or twisting it up until your draw weight and brace height equals what it was) may solve the problem.

RE: Tuning advice, please!
 

Yep, I replaced the cable at the same time as the string. I haven't checked the poundage since I replaced them, but my draw length is the same as it was, so I would think the cable is right. As far as timing, I'll doublecheck the timing mark on the cam and make sure it's still where it is suppose to be later this afternoon.

RE: Tuning advice, please!
 

man, i can solve this. stop trying! walk back tune with broadheads, then tiller tune it with broadheads. if you're broadheads are flying true - who cares where your field points hit? its a hunting bow, not a target bow.

RE: Tuning advice, please!
 

slee - Paper tuning is only a starting point. Bullet holes are great to see and show that you're in the ballpark.

Next at 20 yds., do a rough sight in shooting a group. Next make a horizontal line on your target and shootthat horizontal line w/fp's. Shoot the horizontal line to check your nock set for proper position. Next shoot a vertical line to check your rest position insuring it is set correctly. The bullet hole you're seeing shooting at 6-9 feet shows that your arrow is reacting correctly at that and only that distance. By shooting and starting this group tune will show what's happening down range. Remember it's just a starting point and group tuning will fine tune your bow/arrow.

Once you've achieved proper nock set and rest position, screw on a bh.

Follow the same steps as stated for the fp's.

Always adjust the horizontal impact BEFORE the vertical.

If your bh's are hitting low, lower your nock set by 1/16" until you bring your bh's to the horizontal line.
Conversely, if you're hitting high, raise your nock set by 1/16" until you achieve results.

Make the vertical adjustments to bring the bh's to the fp's by moving the rest in 1/32" increments if necessary.

If you're hitting to the right of the fp's, move the rest to the left and visa-versa if impact is to the left.

Once you're done with that, shoot your fp's to check the effect on your tune. Remember you're shooting to improve groups for both fp's and bh's.

If you're a spot shooter and can hold dime size groups with fp's consistantly, you can demand the same performance from your bh's. In other words, your bh groups should minimally group as well as what you can consistantly shoot with your fp's. Don't expect more from your equipment than what you can personally deliver on a consistant basis.

Good luck.

RE: Tuning advice, please!
 

funny, you had him set his vertical first, and then told him not to.

also, there's a little something you're missing with that super tuning method rogeryenn.

first set your bow up with your 20 pin to hit exactly what you're aiming at.

then do the vertical line test - however - shoot an arrow at 20 yards using your 20 pin at a dot near the top of the target, then 25 yards using your 20 pin aiming at the same dot, then 30 yds using your 20 pin at the same dot - all the way back out to 40 yds.

your arrows should all fall directly below the dot you were aiming at - in a straight line. if they are off left - move your rest a bit to the right and start over - or vice versa and start over. when you've got that squared away - move on to the horizintal line test. when you've got that squared away go back and re-check the vertical test until you can run them both just right - or to the best of your ability. anyway, hate to correct you rog, or maybe i misunderstood your directions, but the above is correct.

RE: Tuning advice, please!
 

Make sure your paper tuning is done at several different distances from the paper.I like to be at a couple feet,6' and about 20'.



Sometime you can get your arrow nock low and it will kick up off the rest and give you a good paper tear close but when you back up,it will show a nock high tear.


Paper can be helpfull but only if you understand what can and does happen with it.



Another thing that can cause what you are seeing is a spine issue.A really stiff arrow will sometime need to be nock low to get a good tear.



These are NOT diagnoses but mearly more things to check and consider.



I am one of those that likes to havebroadheads hitting withmy fieldpoints.I feel that when everything is correct.SPINE,tune,FORM.they will hit the same.This will also allow you to do the majority of your practice with your field points instead of having to constantly resharpen broadheads and tear up targets and arrows.This being said,I still choose to use Rocket expandables.;)I can shoot my broadheads on my arrows with 3" feathers and impact with fieldpoints but there is no denying the forgiveness advantage of field tips and expandables over fixed broadheads.[:-]

RE: Tuning advice, please!
 

Not to start a wee - wee match with you gibblet, but I didn't suggest starting with a vertical.

I never mentioned anything about shooting past 20 yds.

Simply suggested shooting 20.

You're assumption is incorrect.

Not a super tune, just wanted to help the guy with a few basics.

RE: Tuning advice, please!
 

hey, its cool, but you did. shooting at a horizontal line across your target is one way to set your nock pt/rest height, and that adjusts your vertical - and that's exactly what you suggested he do first after sighting in at 20 - then you told him not to do vertical first. walk back tuning is what you were trying to describe to him with the vertical line - which gives you left right adjustments - but you have to 'walk back' to do it while using your 20 yard pin the whole time, and aiming at the same dot at the top of the line the whole time. i know you're trying to help the fellow, and i'm trying to help both of you. i hope you can see that. if that makes me holier, ok.

i do realize the situation can be handled from 20 yards using your 40 and 50 yard pins, but there were no directions for that, and its simpler to just walk back and keep using your 20 pin.

anyway, your new, and i wasn't trying to start anything - just some good, easy,tuning advice.

RE: Tuning advice, please!
 

gibblet - By first setting your nock set to shoot correctly on the horizontal line will aid trememdously with the effect of shooting the vertical line. It makes sense that if the nock is too high or low it will have an adverse effect on how the arrow comes off the rest compounding reactions. Not to say that a rest too far left or right can also have an adverse effect, which it does, but with the nock set correctly positioned you'll eliminateone false negativeso you don't assume that you're dealing with two reactions when you can slim it down to one. It makes tuning a bit easier. With a nock set in an incorrect location you can move the rest all over the place and still not get the arrow off the rest the way it should.

Hence, get the nock set positioned correctly to begin with and you'll be closer to the end result of group/walk back tuning in shorter order.

I'm not saying that additional adjustments to the nock set won't need to be made as you move back. It's just a starting point. Many bowhunters haven't been acquainted with group and walk back tuning. 20 yds is a good starting point. If they want to persue the finer tuning out to 40 they will, and some won't.

Didn't mean to step on your toes.

RE: Tuning advice, please!
 

gibblet - lol.

When I speak of a horizontal line (l-r) going across the face of the target. By shooting that line and getting the poi to hit consistantly you will adjust the nock set.

Vertical line (up and down) on the face of the target. By shooting that line and getting the poi to hit consistantly, you will adjust the rest either left or right.

By physically marking a line gives the shooter something a bit more visual to shoot at.

By shooting the dot and walking back using only a 20 yd pin is basicly the same regarding the vertical line.

RE: Tuning advice, please!
 

Simmer down fellas! I appreciate the info. I've been at bow hunting/shooting for nearly 20 years, so I know what each of you meant...and I've done the "walk back" method already. I paper tune to get everything close, but that's about all I depend on paper for. I've already done that. The only concern I had was that as I'm getting my groups to tighten up, my angle of the arrow sitting on the rest is noticably pointing up. Now this is not a problem for me per say, but I would like to know if there is something I can do to change this appearance while tightening my groups that I haven't tried yet. I think tiller will be the 1st place I start.

Since all of this has come up, I found a crack in my bottom limb, and am waiting on Bowtech to send replacement limbs. I should get a day or 2 on the range to get everything zeroed in, but the issue described may have to wait until I return from Idaho later in the month. Like I said earlier, I'm hitting where I'm aiming. I appreciate all the help though. Let's just all play nice in the process.;)

RE: Tuning advice, please!
 

who me? i'm playing very nice. you won't see me getting upset over tuning stuff. i really only get upset when someone who doesn't know anything about equipment thinks that what they have is the best- just because they have it-and are steering others towards buying it - when i know the product stinks. generally these folks have never even used a different, um, arrow-rest for example, have only been shooting a bow for a week, and have become an expert on what others should buy. that kind of thing gets under my skin - talking others in to wasting money. rog is obviously trying to help a fellow archer - all that does is make me feel good.

oh, and you should do your left and right adjustments on your rest first (in my opinion). who cares if the arrow is coming off nose down if its bouncing off the right side of the arrow rest. i don't see how you can set your nock pt without center shot being set - but either way, if you keep at it you'll get there.

RE: Tuning advice, please!
 

Slee: Did you mention what rest you are using? I must have missed it if you did. I only ask because I have had a much easier time tuning Bowtech Infinity cam bows with a shoot through rest vs. a drop away or WB.

RE: Tuning advice, please!
 

Well Joe, I'll try to explain without getting too irritated about the whole rest thing. I am shooting a Golden Key TKO drop away, except that I could never get the rest cord to stay out of the way of my fletching, so I made it a fixed-position shoot through like I always have shot in the past. If anyone wants to get my feedback on Golden Key's lack of customer service or how none of the suggestions I got from the nice folks on here worked for this rest on my bow, I'll be happy to PM you back. As a fixed position rest, it's a great rest that's easy to adjust. So a long answer to a short question. Sorry.

RE: Tuning advice, please!
 

gibblet - you're cracking me up here! ;)If you re-read my original post, paper tuning before doing the group tuning.

Paper tuning would most definately include adjusting the center shot by adjusting the rest as well as initial nock set positioning.[8D]

slee - glad to see that you've identified the root to your problem with the limb. My abbreviated explaination as I've re-read my own post and can see where gibblets' explaination was highly beneficial.

gibblet - your input will help me as well!!!

RE: Tuning advice, please!
 

some love paper tuning and find it very useful. the way i do it i don't need paper.