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Whisker Biscuit with fingers ???

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Whisker Biscuit with fingers ???

Old 03-22-2006, 03:06 PM
  #11  
G5
 
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Default RE: Whisker Biscuit with fingers ???

thanks turtleshell,

LOL...... all that thinking and i wanst even in the right book. guess i need to stay out of that squirel cage ive got......lol
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Old 03-22-2006, 11:02 PM
  #12  
 
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Default RE: Whisker Biscuit with fingers ???

You know that ward spelled backward spells draw . I couldnt tell you all about verticalossilstion,horizantel rotalation, barification maybe just medication
I can tell you I can pretty much constantly hit the boiler room on an animal from 35 yards with a bisquit and fingers though
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Old 03-23-2006, 09:05 AM
  #13  
 
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Default RE: Whisker Biscuit with fingers ???

ORIGINAL: paka

You know that ward spelled backward spells draw . I couldnt tell you all about verticalossilstion,horizantel rotalation, barification maybe just medication
I can tell you I can pretty much constantly hit the boiler room on an animal from 35 yards with a bisquit and fingers though
Really!!!!That's very interesting.Looks like i got a pet project.
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Old 03-23-2006, 11:06 AM
  #14  
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Default RE: Whisker Biscuit with fingers ???

I'm sure there are better resources, but this is from the Easton tuning guide...

"With a finger release, the arrow bends horizontally, first
[align=left]bending in toward the bow, then bending away from the[/align][align=left]bow, which causes the arrow shaft to leave the arrow rest.[/align][align=left]In the next bending sequence, the arrow nock disengages[/align][align=left]from the bowstring. The arrow is then on its way, freely[/align][align=left]oscillating all the way to the target. The amount of[/align][align=left]oscillation decreases as the arrow travels farther from the[/align][align=left]bow."[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]"When using a release, the arrow most often bends[/align][align=left]vertically, rather than horizontally. Therefore, there is no[/align][align=left]need to compensate for any inward compression of the[/align][align=left]arrow rest or cushion plunger."[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]That's not the only place I had heard it, just the only place I know where to find it in print.[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]I'm not going to change something as fundamental as my release method justso I can makeuse of a particular rest. I've been shooting fingers for 25 years, and I shoot plenty well with a simple flipper. Just wanting to explore my options here.[/align]
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Old 03-24-2006, 07:04 AM
  #15  
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Default RE: Whisker Biscuit with fingers ???

I've not seen the proof of it, but I believe the lateral flexion of the arrow with a fingers release is much greater than the vertical flexion of the arrow with a mechanical release. That is, assuming the bow's cams are properly timed, the nockset is in the right spot and the bow's tiller is well adjusted.

Doesn't show any mechanical release shots on this page, but just to show youwhy I think a whisker bisquit is ridiculously poor choice for a fingers shooter, watch the slo-mo videos on this page.

http://www.wernerbeiter.com/en/informations/videoclips/the_way_to_the_center.php

By the way, this is the same reason I think paper tuning for a fingers shooter is a total waste of time and effort.

I keep hoping Beiter will someday do a similarset of videos with release aids.
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Old 03-24-2006, 11:39 AM
  #16  
 
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Default RE: Whisker Biscuit with fingers ???

In a fingers release the bowstring rolls away from the release hand, so instead of accellerating the arrowwith just the forward and up and down motions of the tiller of the bow, there is also the horozontal component going on.

With correct spine arrows for the bow and a properly adjusted rest, the whisker biscuit works fine with a fingers release.

A walkback tune should be used to determine the optimum position for the windage of the rest.

Because the bowstring rolls away from the release hand the bowstring will be moving about an 1/8" to the left of the centerline of the bow upon release(for a right-handed shooter), and the optimum position for the rest in order for the bow to shoot its narrowest groups will also be about an 1/8" to the left of the centerline of the bow.

The whisker biscuit is a hunting rest and works best with a good stiff hunting spine arrow. The amount of flex in an Easton Axis 300 shaft is about 3/10" in theory. A 500 shaft flexes almost twice as much as a 300 shaft. The carbon shafts cover a broad range of spine choices with a limited number of actual shaft sizes compared to aluminium arrows.

Most of my bows are set at 70#@30". I shoot 31" 2219 shafts with fingerswhen I do my initial bowtuning, and they shoot real good.

For hunting I use a mechanical release and switch to a faster carbon arrow.

A couple of things that I have noted in shooting the whisker biscuit with fingers are that too tight of a biscuit will cause a wider horozontal oval group to occur, and that too light of a spine will cause both the wider group and the wild left and right angled shots to occur.

The arrow should fit loose inside the biscuit.

I have always found that an even tillered bow with the arrow nocked at 90degrees to the bowstring worked best for me.

The windage for the rest should be determined by walkback tuning.

The correct spine arrow for the bow will hit the same vertical line at all distances while the incorrect spine arrow will not.

The bottom line is the whisker biscuit will work with either a fingers release or a mechanical release.

Good luck hunting! >>>------------>
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Old 03-24-2006, 11:50 AM
  #17  
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Default RE: Whisker Biscuit with fingers ???

wow, great posts

the info i have got on here is great, and no one even lashed out and cut my throat for such a stupid question. the feedback on this thread has made me less leary about posting questions i have no clue about. thanks again for all the great info

Mike
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Old 03-24-2006, 12:42 PM
  #18  
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Default RE: Whisker Biscuit with fingers ???

Most of my bows are set at 70#@30". I shoot 31" 2219 shafts with fingerswhen I do my initial bowtuning, and they shoot real good.

For hunting I use a mechanical release and switch to a faster carbon arrow.
After all these threads and 'discussions' we've been in about the wb as a fingers rest, Arroman, I've always assumed you were actually shooting broadheads and hunting with that 'great hunting rest' using a fingers release. Now, lo and behold, your hunting setup with it is using a release!

And you don't really do much fingers shooting with it at all, it seems. Just a bit of preliminary tuning? [:-]

Well, haven't we been hornswaggled! [8D]

I can well understand the horizontal stringing you describe when everything isn't set just perfect for a fingers release with the wb. Of course, it's just a little stringing with field points. Broadheads? Might not even hit a target butt. Could be that's one big reason why you hunt with a release, huh?

I know I could set up a wb well enough to shoot decent with field points, using afine, fingertip grip on the string,but I wouldn't trust a wb with broadhead arrows and fingers release either.

Bottom lines always need to be looked at from several angles. Sometimes you find one fella's bottom line is drawn a bit too shallow.


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Old 03-25-2006, 02:18 PM
  #19  
 
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Default RE: Whisker Biscuit with fingers ???

Actually Art, I said that too tight of a biscuit, or too light of a spine arrow would cause a wider horozontal oval group to occur.

I would never reccomend either a tight biscuit or too light of a spine arrow.

Never the less I am glad that you read. Even if you misunderstand what was written. I try to post things in a manner in which I feel most folks will understand.

When you first set up a bow you should of course shoot a bit closer to the target. Whether you choose to actually place a vertical tape on the bale or shoot at an arrow at the bale you are liable to bust your nock if you use a release real close. And I'll admit to being in a rush to see what the new bow is going to do. I also like to know exactly what the bow will be capable of if by chance I leave the release home or if it has a problem on a hunt. Anyway I got my reasons for the things that I do.

More of my bowshooting with fingers gets done with recurves and longbows. I do anchor the same with a compound as I do with the traditional bows, and at 15-20yards Ican shoot either with fingers good enough to hit soda cans.

The release on the other hand, puts the compound bow more in the catagory of a rifle. At 10yards you can hit dimes. At 20yards you can hit quarters. And thats with a whisker biscuit and a Bowtech, shooting Axis 300 shafts with a 125grain Magnus head. Would the bow exactly the same with fingers? No, and I would not expect it to. But it would be close.

Good luck hunting! >>>------------>
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Old 03-25-2006, 03:47 PM
  #20  
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Default RE: Whisker Biscuit with fingers ???

Nope. Didn't misunderstand a word there, Arroman. Underspined arrows won't shoot worth a flip from ANY rest. That'sso painfullyobvious,I feltthere was no need to go any further with that.

Biskit too tight.. well, that's just one of the limitations of the rest. I prefer to use rests that let me shoot any size arrow I want, without having to buy extra parts. Just one of my peculiarities, I guess.

But none of that speaks to the heart of the matter... ANY rest can be madeto shoot well with field points, especiallywhen you're standing flat footed in front of a target andusing your very best shooting form, and have the time to use a very deliberate, specialized fingers release technique.

Since the wb is touted by many as the 'perfect' hunting rest (gag!)then we need to talk about using hunting arrows in hunting conditions. How consistent is arrow flight, WITH BROADHEADS, using fingers release with a biskit, in actual hunting conditions?That's the point and it doesn't seem anyone saying the wb is okay for fingers is addressing it.

Anyway, I hope you never forget your release. You correctly point out that centershot adjustments are very different for fingers release vs mechanical release. Taking into account the fact thata fingers release normally requires a stiffer arrow spine than for a release; wrong centershot and potentially underspined arrows, plus broadheads instead of field points...

Three strikes against your odds of successalready (assuming you use broadheads and not mechanicals - andno ethical bowhuntershoots mechanicals to compensate for using an untuned bow, right?). So, I'd hate to think what your arrow flight would look like with broadheads, shooting fingers with a biskit when it's tuned to a mechanical release.Scary proposition, that![:-]

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