STS... a tuning nightmare??? UPDATE!!!!
 

Hey guys, just wondering how many guys have tuned their bows with an STS system on. I have always tuned the bows with the STS system off and later put it on. Well, last night I decided to finish up and fine tune my Old Glory and I decided to leave the STS on when shooting through paper. I was getting a consistant nock high left tear. I moved my rest out and raised the arms on my rest a bit and shot again... nothing. I kept moving and finally got the left tear to disappear but I was still left with a 1-1/2" nock high tear, even with the arrow sitting incredibly nock low off the bow. I took the STS off and tuned and got it shooting bullet holes. I fixed my Lumenocks and put them on and shot. Perfect arrow flight. I decided to throw the STS on and shoot an arrow and I noticed the back end of the arrow wobbling. I shot through the paper again and yet another nock high tear. I took the STS off and have it sitting here. I really like the way it works as it removes pretty much all of the little noise from the bow, but if it is going to entirely throw the bow out of tune it is worthless to me. I don't know why I never thought of it before, but it would seem as though the STS would really throw off the nock travel of a bow. The string is going to stop at the lower end of the bow but at the top there is nothing preventing the string from still moving forward. Maybe I am way off here but if anybody has any input I would be glad to hear it.

RE: STS... a tuning nightmare???
 

I've always wondered something using the STS. To me it seems the string's follow through should be natural in finishing the shot. Couldn't impeding the string even in the least change the characteristics including the speed? I am not sure about this but doesn't the arrow remain with the string upon release until the string finds its final forward motion?

RE: STS... a tuning nightmare???
 

The STS, like many things, has positive and negative attributes. You've just experienced one of the negatives. No, you're not alone in this matter.;)

RE: STS... a tuning nightmare???
 

Yes, which is -- as Len pointed out -- one of the positives. This stopping the string at brace prohibits the string from impeding the arrow's speed by "clinging" on to the arrow nock as it begins to slow down past brace... Some people have experienced a 3-4 fps gain just by using an STS.

But, it appears Buck Magnet has discovered a negative which may outweigh that positive... and the noise suppression abilities as well. I wonder what the guys in Dyersburg have to say about it...

RE: STS... a tuning nightmare???
 

But is that gain in fps due to some guys removing their noise suppressors, catwhiskers, etc. because they used an STS?

RE: STS... a tuning nightmare???
 

Nope, simply by adding the STS...

RE: STS... a tuning nightmare???
 

This has got the be the most overhyped accessory that has come out in the last several years. If you posted this over on Archery Talk, the STS crowd would call you a basher and by now would be questioning the worthiness of several of your ancestors.[8D]

I've shot pretty well with the STS on my Darton, including my best ever 3D score, but I really don't think the STS had much to do with that score, and I've shot the bow very well without it. I understand the theoretical advantages, but after shooting an Oregon Black Knight (5 3/4" brace) for a couple of months, often with a bulky nylon jacket on, and not heard any string slap(on my arm), I'm just not convinced of the necessity of this thing.
Even with the Darton, which had considerable vibration without any accessories, the STS, regardless of where it is set up or how far from the string (up to 3/8") it still causes a slap that my 53 yr. old ears can hear quite clearly. There is no difference in noise with and noise without, just a sharper sound with the STS and nicely deadened vibration. I recently got a McPherson Edge to try out. Bare bow it is much quieter than the Darton. I decided to try the STS on it. Only 2 shots were needed to convince me that the bow was noisier with the STS than without it.[:@]
Is it just my bows? Is it just my ears? It is still hard to believe that so many younger guys swear the STS makes their bows "silent".

RE: STS... a tuning nightmare???
 

Joe:

It's almost like you read my mind. Everything you just posted is what I've experienced.

The only difference was that my old ears didn't hear the noise. My 14 year old son walked up on me one day and wondered why my bow was so noisey. I disconnected the STS and he said the noise disappeared. My experience with the speed was neutral. Maybe 1/2 fps. MAYBE.

The possible difference that I see between myself and most of those over on AT is that I'm using a hunting rig. When I tested the STS I didn't remove any of the string silencers. I played with it for about a week and had to 'find the sweet spot' to keep it from ruining my tune. Of course, like you, I never have a problem with hitting my arm/clothing, so that was not an issue.

Thank you for posting that information. I was beginning to believe I could have been mistaken.:D

RE: STS... a tuning nightmare???
 

Any bets on this thread finding it's way on AT within a few hours? If it's not already.

Thanks for the info guys. I was toying around with the idea of putting the STS on my new bow (whatever it might be...still shopping) and I still might. My motivation was for more noise reduction. Would it be possible to put one STS above nock point and one below? I just look at this contraption and I equate it to not following through on a golf or baseball swing. Bad things happen when you don't do that.

I'll keep an eye on this thread as I believe it will have plenty of legs in the coming days.

RE: STS... a tuning nightmare???
 

hunter 25:

It was not my intent to discourage anyone. The STS does pretty much eliminate vibration, no argument there. But I do hear a "slap" that is anything but silent, as so many guys claim. It seemed to change tune and impact point more when I was using it with a drop away. Seemed to work better with the Biscuit, or at least seemed to change things less. I've had the thing on and off my bow, and hunted with it this year. I just can't reproduce the "amazing" results that seem to be posted about the thing. To me, it is a better quality version of the Saunders "Deadly Quiet". That makes the STS crowd howl too, but I can't see much difference in what they actually do. JMHO:(

RE: STS... a tuning nightmare???
 

Don't worry JOE PA, you haven't discouraged me with regards to buying one of these contraptions. There are certain guys on here that I pay attention to what they have to say, and you're one of them.

RE: STS... a tuning nightmare???
 

i've certainly had to play with mine on my hunting bow so it wouldn't make my arrows kick.

RE: STS... a tuning nightmare???
 

I currently have one on my Equalizer. It was set up by Gerry Carter of Circle C archery down here in Georgia. I did gain 5 fps but that was due to removing the string silencers. As far aslapping sound, I have only shot the bow indoors and it is one of the quitest bows I haveshot (better then my Outback). It did remove "all" the hand shock from my equalizer and currently still shooting perfect bullet holes.This is the first one I have hadinstalled on one of my bows so the jury is still out.

RE: STS... a tuning nightmare???
 

I just tuned my 06' Chrome Old Glory Saturday with an STS and no problems for me?..........In fact I can't recall any of my 3D set-ups tuning differently with or without. I can take it off , put it on and still shoot the same pretty bullet holes.

I have no interest in this product as a hunting tool. I shoot higher brace height bows with good form and string slap on anything has never been even a remote issue.
What I use it for is in 3D competition. Even at only 60# any bow generates some snap with light arrows and no string silencers, the STS soaks upany accessory jarring vibration and if it gets the arrow off the string more consistently shot to shot (and quicker) maybe it does help with accuracy to a degree by combating human error at the end of the shot?

I do know that I shoot very well with it on, have no tuning problems to speak of and since it is only used on foam animals I don't sweat an slight change in sound vs. string silencers. I shoot without any in competition so the STS is an improvement in noise for my application.

Would I shoot to the same level without it on my 3D bow?Not sure Iwould even be able to quantify it due to the ever changing variables on a 3D course.........now if I was a spottie who suddenly took it off and instantly noticed a drop in my scoring average that's something else.
In 3D it would be too difficult to attribute a score on one particular accessory.

I'll keep using it, it serves a specific purpose for me and for whatI want it to do it works.

RE: STS... a tuning nightmare??? UPDATE
 

Hey guys,

I figured that I would give you guys and update. This evening I was at the pro-shop about an hour and a half before I had to do my screen shoot so I set-up the paper tuning rack and decided to mess with the STS system. I spent nearly an hour messing with it and finally I was able to get it to shoot bullet holes through the paper. I had to move the stopper closer to the center of my string but I also had to be very careful because when set as close to the center as possible, the cables would bump the STS when drawing back. I am glad that I finally got it all set-up but boy was it a pain.

I got a chance to chrono my bow with my new arrows and I was pleasently suprised...

2006 BowTech Old Glory (fast mod)
70# draw weight
29" draw length
STS system
single brass nock and fletcher tru peep on the string
Simms Limbsaver Ultras and BowTech Vibra-blocks
27.5" Gold Tip Pro Hunter Advantage 55/75's with 4" Vane Tec vanes and Burt Coyote Lumenocks....

I was getting 297 f.p.s to 299 f.p.s. This seemed really fast, maybe the chrono was off?

RE: STS... a tuning nightmare??? UPDATE
 

Don't know unless you weight those arrows. It doesn't seem that far off though.

RE: STS... a tuning nightmare??? UPDATE
 

I was impressed with my sts from the moment I put it on. I didn't gain any speed just by adding it. I only gained a few fps taking my leeches off. I noticedsome reduction in noise, but noticed a huge difference in the amount of time you hear the noise. It's a very short thud, compared to what it was. I had no issues needing to retune. I only shoot a hunting rig.

RE: STS... a tuning nightmare??? UPDATE
 

I have to admit that I was a big proponent of the STS system, or at least my version of it, after it first debuted. JoePa even came up to the shop and shot the bow I had it installed on. My '05 Old Glory with it installed was extremely quiet and I thought it reduced some vibration in the bow as well. After several weeks of shooting with it though I removed mine and, to be honest, I really did not notice much of a difference with it off in terms of vibration or noise level. I have not put it back on since.

RE: STS... a tuning nightmare??? UPDATE
 

Survey says: TRINKET! (IMO)Just like the Deadly Quiet 10 years before it, or a no-peep, or a million other things I've tried and thrown into the "annex".I see no huge difference with them on or off, and yes arrow flight can be affected and you need to tune the bow with it installed, common sense factor there.

The hype is certainly big on them tho!

RE: STS... a tuning nightmare??? UPDATE
 

Er oh, I shoot an STS & a no-peep!?! Trink-a-teer!

The best thing I've doen with the STS is mount it with a piece of rubber gasket material between the main block & ht riser. This seems to have soaked up some of the tink I was getting before the "upgrade". I also like mine about 1/4" off the string instead of almost touching.

RE: STS... a tuning nightmare??? UPDATE
 

I have to agree with what Frank said, but honestly from the '03 Patriot to the Pro 40 Freedom and Mighty Mite VFT to the Old Glory, ALL of his bows are very, very quiet with low recoil and vibration. The only thing wrong with them is that the draw is too darned long! LOL It is odd, to say the least that certain sounds can be heard better or not heard at all in various surroundings. On the Tundra, I could clearly hear the slap sound at home, yet in the shooting lanes, it wasn't as noticeable, and even you (much younger ears) said you didn't really notice it. (Unless you were being polite.):D My Pro 40 Wheelie made a click, and the Newberry a high pitched hum, yet you remarked about the Newberry's hum, but didn't seem to hear the click of the Wheely. Like many other archery related things, there seems to be little rhyme or reason to it. To those who like the STS, I say "Enjoy!" I had mine on and off the Darton and McPherson twice each tonight. Still can't see much of a point to having it on, but that's me. If the Champion had a rear stabilizer insert, I'd have probably tried it on that bow too, even though that bow is now scary quiet.