question for the "really" technically inclined!
 

Some of you know I recently slapped my first really expensive sight on a bow -- a Spot Hogg Hunter Hogg-It (at least a sight approaching $200 is expensive in my mind).

My question revolves around the ability to adjust for 2nd and 3rd axis leveling... something I've obviously never been able to tinker with on the"cheaper" sights I've previously used.

The 2nd axis makes sense to me, since most people (myself included) naturally "cant" the bow to some degree when holding it naturally. I say this because I have to conciously turn my wrist a small bit to get the sight's bubble level to line up exactly.

Would it be better to make the adjustment with my wrist, and be holding the bow exactly up-and-down? Or, adjust the 2nd axis and tune the sight to my shooting form?

And someone please explain the benefits of 34d axis leveling to me?

Thanks. It's cool to be able to do this tinkering, although I was always able to use my old sights to just about nail any leaf I wanted to from my tree stand, so I really don't know how truly beneficial all the technology is...

RE: question for the "really" technically inclined!
 

i don't know brother greg, i thought about messing with my 3rd axis, but didn't feel like dragging a target 50 yards up a steep hill to start.

RE: question for the "really" technically inclined!
 

http://www.spot-hogg.com/newsletters.shtml

Read #1 and #19 regarding 3rd axis...........you're in deep now. :D

As far as 2nd axis goes, it's best to set that with the use of reliable bench tools. Don't set your 2nd axis for human error or natural cant. Set that level perfectly perpendicular to the string.
Then trust and adjust your shooting form to match the properly set level........adjusting a level for a built in cant or form issue is not a good idea.

I'll look for the emails..........;)

RE: question for the "really" technically inclined!
 

Gibblet,
No 50 yard uphill targets necessary.........read the Spot-Hogg info.
Aiming up at a plumb line at full draw will show you pretty quickly if your 3rd axis is off.

RE: question for the "really" technically inclined!
 

RE: question for the "really" technically inclined!
 

Does all this 2nd and 3rd axis leveling really make that big of a difference?

RE: question for the "really" technically inclined!
 

Newman..... Depends how far you want to take your accuracy potential.

Your 3rd axis adjustment not only has to do with uphill shots, but DOWNHILL as well which would directly relate to treestand shots on downward angles.

If your goal is a pie plate at 30 yards or some other soft accuracy margin for error I suppose the 3rd axis isn't vital, plenty of animals have died at the hands of sights with no 3rd axis adjustment, 2nd axis should absolutely be taken into account set properly and used religiously.

I'll tell you though, where I shoot in 3D competition with pins a properly set 2nd and 3rd axis could easily mean the difference between a top 3 finish and a 3rd PAGE finish.

I want to give myself every accuracy advantage I can for the highest level of precision my body will allow. Aim small miss small and who knows if and when that little extra window of error means the difference between a marginally hit animal and a fatal shot? Problem is, if it happens to you you'll never know.:eek:

If you are primarily a treestand hunter and do not have a 3rd axis adjustment you should be sure to shoot your bow from height to make sure there is no difference left and right vs level ground. If there is a difference you'll need to readjust your sights for the elevated position.

RE: question for the "really" technically inclined!
 

now that sounds like something i'm much more willing to do matt, thanks.

RE: question for the "really" technically inclined!
 

John, here's what my owner's manual has to say about 3rd axis leveling:

1) Hang a plumb bob from your ceiling.

2) Nock an arrow.

3) Kneel down (so that you will be shooting uphill).

4) Draw back, and aim up toward the plumb bob and align your vertical aiming wire to the plumb bob. See where your level is.

5) Let down, and make an adjustment to your 3rd axis (the object is to try and get your wire lined up with the plumb bob and your bubble level).

6) Redraw to see how close your adjustment is.

7) Repeat steps as necessary.

RE: question for the "really" technically inclined!
 

i ain't got no wire, but i can spread my pins out and do that.

hey, got my consti busting a couple pin nocks today - not too shabby - and that's without a peep.

RE: question for the "really" technically inclined!
 

Worth reiterating iswhat Matt was saying. If your 2nd axis is set properly, and you have to engage a 'grip' to get the level corrected, either your formor your bow haveto corrected.

Newman1:

When you stop by the shop this week, I'll detailthis issue and describe howtheset-up we docan accomodate part of these problems.;)

RE: question for the "really" technically inclined!
 

so when my bow is in the vise, and i'm setting my 2nd axis level, if i use a level to get the string going vertical- the bow won't be quite perfectly vertical will it? so do i level the string and then the sight, or level the riser and the sight.

in other words do i put the string or the riser in the 'y' plane before putting the sight in the 'x' plane.

RE: question for the "really" technically inclined!
 

hmmm... I would have to say you'd want the string itself as the variable in the equation; risers have too much curvature and flow to them to get those "square." Just my opinion, though.

RE: question for the "really" technically inclined!
 

you know, my pat string comes off the idler just a little cocked, just a little, and it never made sense to me that it was going perfectly vertical to the cam in relation to the bow, and i've wondered if its why it looks to me after setting my 2nd axis with the string and sight that it appears i have a small cant. know what i mean vern?

RE: question for the "really" technically inclined!
 

Gib,

Have you seen my problems over in the bowhunting forum I'm having with the adjusments on my new sight? And you expect me to understand that?!? ;):D

RE: question for the "really" technically inclined!
 

Everything I have always read or been taught has been to set the string on the Yplane and the sight on the X. This seems to work well for me.

I also typically set my 3rd axis on a "Medicine Stone" bow vise. I have used the plumbob, and the Medicine Stone is much easier. I will set it on the vise, then check it on a plumbob at full draw to make sure nothing changes from rest to full draw, it saves you from having to get to full draw, then adjust , get to full draw, adjust, etc. And as everyone above says, yes 3rd axis is VERY important. Around here there are a LOT of shoots with some serious up and down hill shots, and it will help considerably if you pay attention to that bubble on every shot.

RE: question for the "really" technically inclined!
 

thanks rick. i was reading up a little on the 2nd axis over at sureloc and they were suggesting setting it by holding the sight - not on the bow - against a known level (y plane) surface. hmmm.

RE: question for the "really" technically inclined!
 

I would not set 2nd axis this way without thorough explanation on why it's a better way. Iwould be very interested to see why they think this is better. Until then, setting w/ using the string as you Y plane has always worked for me out to 60 yards. This year I plan to shoot a bit of field archery, so I may be able to test out to 90 meters too.

I would love to see what Len has to say about all this.

RE: question for the "really" technically inclined!
 

i would too, but i'm thinking one may need to drive to maryland to get this kind of info.

RE: question for the "really" technically inclined!
 

I just feel like adding a couple kinks in the equation,just for fun.;)


When dealing with MOST 1 cams the string will run at an extreme angle so leveling off the string will have you canting the bow so you would be better off,imo to set the 2nd axis off the sight bar.The best way is to do it at full draw but this is hard for most to accomplish without a machine to hold the bow at draw so at rest is usually good enough for most.


3rd axis is very beneficial for those that shoot from a deerstand as others have mentioned but what most have not mentioned isfourth axis and this one causes MUCH controversy on whether it is needed.It isneeded in target archery at extreme distancesbecause the bar usually doesn't run square with the riser and if your 3rd is set offthe bar,then it will not be accurate when mounted on the bow.Fourth axis gets the sight pins AND sight barsquare with the arrow and will allow the 3rd to be accurate.:eek:


Now that we are all confused,I will back outnow.[8D]

RE: question for the "really" technically inclined!
 

foxy, thanks for the first part - explains my single cam considerations.

now for the last part, i'm not sure i want to thank you for that, my head is spinning all over the place now.

RE: question for the "really" technically inclined!
 

LOL,that is exactly why I brought it up.[:-]


Seriously,if you really think about it,it does make sense.If you are checking a third axis off a bar that is running at an angle to the arrow,the level is also turned slightly to the arrow so how would the level read accurate when you tilt the bow forward?:D:eek:



The only cure is to shim the sight bar,or buy a sight bar adjuster that will give you adjustment.There was someone making them over at Archerytalk a while back.



The way to check and see if the bar runs parallel with the arrow is to move the bar all the way forward and shoot at a spot and then move the bar back and shoot at the same spot.If the two arrows are not in a vertical line with each other,you need to shim the sight bar untill they hit on the same vertical line.This will only work,of course,if the 2nd axis is set.[&:]

RE: question for the "really" technically inclined!
 

Oh yeah,WE HAVING FUN YET.:D[8D];)