Tuning problems / ????'s
 

My gear:
Reflex Super Slam
Whisker Biscuit
Axis ST 400's
Release
100gr
Paper tuning today (again!) because my groups were all over the paper yesterday. When I center line the arrow, tail tears way right. In order to get a "bullet hole", I had to move the rest to the left (away from riser), so far that the arrow tip is about 1 - 2 inches left of nock!
What's more important, center line, or bullet hole?!

RE: Tuning problems / ????'s
 

A couple questions
How many pounds do you pull ?
How long are your arrows ?
Is this a new setup?
Or did you change something , rest , arrows ?

Dont paper tune at just one distance , its when you get a bullet hole at diferant distances from feet to the bow , to many yards to the bow , that some assume they have a good tune , and usealy do .

That said I dont paper tune , but have in the past .

RE: Tuning problems / ????'s
 

I haven't bothered with paper tuning in more than a decade. That's how important 'bulletholes' are. Most really knowledgeable people know that the bullethole is a starting point. There is more tuning to do. So, why put all that time, effort and frustrationinto just getting to a somewhat moreadvanced starting point?

The way I set centershot on my bows... First, I eyeball the rest to center and then center the sights over the arrow. Then, I shoot a few arrows at 20 yards. Adjust thewindage on the sightsso thatmy groups arehitting center. Then I shoot a few arrows at 50 yards. If the arrows are grouping in the center at 50 yards, I'm pretty much done.

However, if they group off to the side of the spot at 50 yards, I adjust the rest. Then I'll keep shooting a few arrows and adjusting the rest untilmyarrows aregrouping in the center. Then, Igo rightback to 20 yards. Adjust the sights to where my groups are centered at 20 yards again, and repeat the process. It doesn't take more than3-4 repetitions of that to get centershot wiggled in pretty darn tight.

Remember, adjust windage on the SIGHTS at 20 yards. Adjust windage on the REST at 50 yards.

When I get my groups centered at both 20 and 50 yards, I'llshoot a few broadheads and see how they fly, compared to the field points. Usually no adjustments are necessary.

If you can't shoot good groups at 50 yards, then do it at 40. Even 30, if you have to. Just be aware that the further you can shoot good groups, the more precise you can make your adjustments and the less time you'll spend doing it.

Now, as to why you're getting a bad tear with the rest centered... I think it's due to:Badly underspined arrows; or, your grip sucks and you're torquing the bow terribly bad; or, you're dropping your bow arm when you release the arrow. If it's one of those last two then some of it is the rest you're using. It can really magnify any problems you're having with torque or bad follow through on the shot.

And it could be a catastropic combination of all those things.

RE: Tuning problems / ????'s
 

Bow is less than a year old. I set it up and thought I had it tunedshortly afterI got it. Hunted with it all last season. I'm drawing about 65lbs, arrows are 29", have the same set-up as when I got it last Spring.
Do you think the Axis arrows are "underspined" for my rig?
What got me started was the way my arrows were all over the paper yesterday at 20 - 30 - & 40 yards. I'd make some rest and pin adjustments at the range, and saw little or no improvement and went home. Then I thought a paper test would start me off as if I had just gotten the rig.
As far as shooting form, I've been shooting bow for 15+ years and pay alot of attention to form. I really don't think I am torquing or dropping my arm.
I've never had a tech look at the bow, maybe something in "string stretch", or other break-in anomilyhas occurred. I'm mystified, and frustrated.

RE: Tuning problems / ????'s
 

Proper arrow spine is what proper arrow spine does.

The correct spine arrow for the bow will hit the same vertical line at all distances when the bow is in tune. Too light of a spine arrow may hit the same spot at 15yards all day long, but when the range increases the arrow will impact more and more to the left as the range increases.

You could back the poundage down on your bow to try and find a draw weight where your arrow spine will work. I'd say between 50 and 55 pounds you would be about right.

I'd keep the bow at an even tiller and back both limb bolts out the same number of turns each. And I'd nock the arrow at 90degrees to the bowstring.

The windage for the rest should be determined by grouptuning at 10-20-30-40yards. When tha arrows all hit the same vertical line at all distances the windage is set right.

Good luck hunting! >>>------------>

RE: Tuning problems / ????'s
 

First off,centershot is way more important than bulletholes for good groups but bullet holes do become fairly important when considering broadhead flight at speeds and penetration.



Your problem looks to be an arrow that is underspined.Second possibility is torque.Try backing your poundage down to 60#'s and see if the bow will bullethole with centershot set.If it does you have a choice between shooting at 60#'s or buying some 340's and going back to 65#'s.

If this doesn't fix it then torque is most likely the issue and you need to try and correct it.It isn't absolutely a neccesity to eliminate torque to shoot well but tuning is easier.


I am in agreement with the others on group tuning but in my case,I usually get bulletholes with my setups when I get the bow and arrow combo right and after group tuning.

RE: Tuning problems / ????'s
 

According to Ontarget2 your setup is severely underspined. You would be perfect if you dropped the draw weight to 55lbs, or if you went to an Axis 340, and bumped your point up to a 125 grain point, you would also be spined correctly at your current 29" - 65lbs draw. You would lose a bit of speed by going with the 340 shaft and 125 grain tip though, about 18fps. You would be shooting in the low to mid 260s.

RE: Tuning problems / ????'s
 

Good advice all!
I used the 400's because that's what the Easton chart called for. Weird.
I'm of the belief that Elk don't know the speed of the arrow that takes him down, why should I care. Accuracy is paramont.
Speed only becomes important (I think) in shootong competitively.
So I will lower my poundage and keep my fingers crossed.

Any idea how much one turn reduces poundage? The Reflex website (Hoyt as well) is pretty much useless.

RE: Tuning problems / ????'s
 

You must have been looking at the medium cam and not a hard cam on the chart.I like to stay on the stiff side when looking at the charts so I look at the hard cam.On my own bows I useArchers Advantage and therefore there is no guess workon spine.


1 turn should yield 2-3 pounds,so 2-3 turns should show a difference in your paper.If it doesn't,then the problemmay be you or something else.

RE: Tuning problems / ????'s
 

My bow says "60 - 70lbs", do I dare go below 60?

RE: Tuning problems / ????'s
 

I wouldn't go below 60 with it. The bow wouldn't have the proper amount of tension on the string and cables, so your performance would suck and the bow would be noisy. Just bite the bullet and buy the 340's. Find someone shooting 55 or lesspounds to sell the 400's to. Or maybe a trad shooter would take 'em off your hands.

If you're concerned about string/cable break-in, then measure your brace height and axle to axle length. If brace height is more than 1/2" lower than what the specs call for, or axle to axle length is more than an inch longer than spec, then the string/cables need to be twisted up and adjusted.

If you're using stock Hoyt/Reflex string and cables, I can practically guarantee they need adjustment. They are the worst!Put some aftermarket rigging on the bow, ASAP.

RE: Tuning problems / ????'s
 

And get a different rest. I personally don't like the WB, just because if you have one flaw in your grip, stance, anything, that rest will do nothing but magnify the problem.

RE: Tuning problems / ????'s
 

I resently put a new mechanical arrow rest and quiver on my old fred bear compound. I also replaced my sights last year. before I replaced my rest I was shooting close to dead on. Now with my new rest im sceptical of the first shot, ive lost plenty of arrows sighting in the past. I was wanting to get some pointers on what at home "tunings" i can do to minimize the chance of losing a $50 set of arrows.

RE: Tuning problems / ????'s
 

I'll probably start a new thread for this question . . . but given my rig, what arrows would y'all recommend?

RE: Tuning problems / ????'s
 

Before I spent oney on anyhing,I would check the arrows at 60#'s.That is what the chart I have from Easton says you need.At that point,if the spine is the problem,then the 340's would be fine at 65#'s.


Arthur is right about the strings and cables,good chance they need to be adjusted and may be the source of the problem.

RE: Tuning problems / ????'s
 

I dropped it to right at 60# and shot it this morning after centering it. Still tore a lot to the right. Shot a few at 20 yds and was O.K. Not like it was.

RE: Tuning problems / ????'s
 

A quick way to solve your problem is to trash the paper and bare shaft tune.

RE: Tuning problems / ????'s
 

Does your bow have a floating yoke or a twisted yoke in it. I recently helped a guy get his bow back in tune, and he has the twisted instead of the floating yoke, There was too much pressure on one limb and actually was tilting his cam. He swore it was a problem with the spine, but now he can stack arrows all day long. Just a thought.............

RE: Tuning problems / ????'s
 

if your shooting through paper a 20 yards and beyond, you should have a bullet hole every time because the arrow should have stabilized by then.

when you say all over the target does that mean the arrows are impacting at random places from where you are aiming????

I paper tune from 3 feet to 15 feet from the target. that tells me how the arrow is coming off of my bow. I like to see a decent tear at those ranges. it doesn't have to be a perfect bullet hole as it is a starting point for other tests.

sounds to me like your arrow is hittting the side of the biscuit when it is leaving casuseing it to fish tail and be erratic in flight. the biscuit usually sets up near center line on the bows, not way to the left.

RE: Tuning problems / ????'s
 

get a bigger backstop


try some 2314's , allminum

RE: Tuning problems / ????'s
 

I'm pretty sure it is a floating yoke.
I took it to the local bow tech and he cut an inch and a half off my arrows, and did a tune-up on the bow (nothing major found).
It already shoots much better.
Conclusion: Shorter arrow created a stiffer spine. Bow is set to 60#.
I can see a grouping improvement already!