Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

I've seen alot of folks (generally staff shooters for certain companies) argue that their arrows are plenty straight because they tested them on an arrow straightener and got a "good" reading that was within the advertised tolerance.

pffft[:'(]

Several nights back at the shop I grabbed a half dozen of the new Beman Max-4 ST type arrows, as well as some Carbon Tech Whitetails (not the premium XPS). I'd been interested in shooting the Bemans and the CT's were a good match price-wise for comparisons sake.

On the straightener guage/dial, all the Bemans did fairly well...coming in at .007 TIR or thereabouts. The Whitetails roughly the same.

Now the kicker is this. That's only measured over a 28" span, and I *KNOW* from experience that an arrow that "reads" good, can still have awful wobble on point or nock end or both. But people never believe it til they see it for themselves.

So just to satisfy my curiosity, on Monday night I brought my handy/dandy apple arrow spinner to the shop. Grabbed the exact same Bemans and the exact same CT's.

5 out of the 6 Whitetails spun well, with just a little wobble on either end that could be cut out. The 6th was a tomato stake unless you wanted to make a crossbow bolt out of it.

The MAX-4s were attrocious. They hardly would stay on the spinner...nocks and points almost doing figure eights. I wouldn't put a broadhead on any of them..mech or fixed.

Remember, the Bemans and the CT's registered similar readings on the straightener.

I then grabbed a half dozen ST AXIS. Same thing as the Bemans.

I've got a damn good set of AXIS that I culled out of 3 different dozens and then matched in weight. Even then after cutting to 27.5" I was only able to get 11 shafts I'd put in my quiver.

Pretty damn sad.:(

I suggest everyone invest in one of these little things, and ignore arrow straightener readings/manufacturers advertised specs if you are not going to spend the $ on premium straightness shafting (and even then some of them will get some wobble on occasion).Great investment. I've had mine for 10 years now and it's saved me a $hitpile of $ and tuning/accuracy frustration (that wasn't self induced :D)

http://www.applearchery.com/spintesters.htm

Caveat Emptor!

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

Well, you just squashed my thought of possibly picking up some of the new Beman Max4 shafts. [&:] I'm glad I didn't run out and spend the money only to find trouble. I've never had a problem with my ICS Hunters though. They fly great!

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

ICSH are some of the worst offenders I've seen over the years Jeramy, but if ya get straight ones..just like with the AXIS, they are incredibly accurate arrows.

But, I'm *not* trying to single out any particular brand or make here. I've seen it from everyone...Easton/Beman, Goldtip, CarbonExpress, Carbon Impact, etc....

Buy a spinner, and use it. Some shops won't let ya spin 'em before ya buy..cos they know..and don't want other customers to see..bad for business unfortunately.

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

Jeff,
I have one of those, they are a great tool......and for some strange reason I just can't seem to find any wobble on my 28.5" A/C/C 3-60's??;)

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

I made one out of a small box and some old roller skate bearings.

In order to measure an arrow accurately you would have to be able to move the dial indicater to different spots on the arrow moving from one end to the other. Not just do it in the middle. Of course unless you work in a machine shop you probably won't have that type of equipment. I wish I still did quality control, I could really put some arrows to the test with the stuff I had available to me.

I saw the same thing when shooting spots a few years ago. Some guy brought in one of those ballbearing arrow spinners and everyone was playing with it. Guys were putting their carbons like Gold Tips and stuff on there and were not impressed with the results. And I'm not talking GT's and Terminators, I mean the expensive models. Then somone put a set of X-7's on there and they would spin perfectly true. Same thing with the cheap Easton Jazz kids arrows I was using. That ticked a few people off.

Of course some of those guys with the wobbly carbon arrows still shot better scores;). It doesn't seem to make a huge difference at 20 yards with target tips. Like you said though, I would not want to put a broad head on some of those arrows I saw.

After seeing that and reading some of your reports (and others) I just laugh when I hear someone say carbons are either stright or broken. Then when they look at me I tell them they are lucky if they are straight right out of the box half the time. And I have seen some carbons after being shot for a while that were flat out crooked at the end. You didn't need to put them in a spinnner.

Paul

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

Hmm...better make a phonecall to Robert Stack to see if we can get to the bottom of this...

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

Yup...I've made a few enemies I suspect showing a few people their ultimate all carbons were not as straight as a GGII. Most people are amazed. They go carbon thinking they are getting a much more durable arrow that is just as good as the alums they were shooting....

well..they got the durability part right for the most part.:eek:

Exactly. 20 yards. target tips. Big whoop. With broadheads or getting outto 30 and beyondthat is where arrow tolerances really start to come into play. And all of this assumes the shooter is fairly capable.

As do I Paul..as do I

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

So, excluding the A/C/C's, are there any brands that tend to be more consistant when it comes to the spin test? Or is it based on luck depending on which batch of arrows you got on that particular day?

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

There goes Jeff again, reopening the arrow shaft mfrs' old wounds and rubbing salt in them.[8D]

Paul, I'm in the same boat. Retired and don't have access to a surface plate and precision V-blocks any more. Not to mention some $%*! broke in and stole my toolbox with all my personal inspection gear.:(

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

This is how I do it.

1)buy the absolute straightest arrows that particular manufacturer makes. From Easton this is A/C/Cs. Beman does have a new "Elite" grade straighness (dealer only) for the ICSH. All the other carbons from Easton/Beman are pretty similar for straightness (i.e. hit or miss). For Goldtip this is the "pro" series. For Carbon Express it's the "select" series. For Carbon Tech the "XP" series, etc.

2) Use your spinner to determine which end need to be cut off(or both). Sometimes this can be a pain, because you may need to only cut off one inch at one end, and then cut off the rest at the other end to make your finished arrow length. Oftentimes though you only need to cut off one end, or just will need to take off the same amount on both (e.g. You need a 28" arrow. Raw shafts are 33.5 inches long....you take 2.75" off one end...then 2.75" off the other.)

*on premium straightness shafts it's usually *much* simpler. Generally justa bit of wobble on one end or the other. easy peasy.

3) Use either that tool from Montec or the stone from a set of AXIS to square the ends. (I actually do this first if i take a brand new shaft and see the nock only wobbles just a teeny bit. Sometimes this is all that is needed)

*It's important that you put the nock on the straightest/most wobble free end.If it doesn't get a smooth straight send off it will never be as accurate as possible.

4) After getting them cut and the nock installed properly I fletch them as desired.

5) I then use a slow cure epoxy or power bond to install inserts (again making sure the point end was squared off) *WITH* whatever broadhead I'm going to use. Spin the arrows and adjust the instert as necc to get the broadhead wobble free. I do this for every arrow. If I don't have enough broadheads I'll do 4 or 6 at a time. Let them dry overnight after I get the inserts right, and then start over the next day with another batch.

It *IS* a permanent bond. So make sure you get 'em right and dry standing on the nock end undisturbed. If you get one that won't spin right after turning an insert, I try a different broadheads. If that doesn't work, I try a new insert. Good thing is with the slow set epoxy/Power bond, you have plenty of time to get it right.

Youmay want to number/mark the arrows as to whichparticular arrowwent with which particular broadhead (as they have variances too, and can produce a little wobble if mismatched from original). I generally just try each head on each shaft to find which one was originally matched up. And if you've got the arrows built really well w/ quality components, sometimes it won't matter..they all will spin well regardless.

Then I pick the 4-6 absolute straightest spinning nock/broadhead arrows, and put them away as my hunting shafts with the boradheads attatched.

The rest I use for practice until time comes to shoot the broadhead arrows.

Yes it's a bit time consuming. But it's much less time consuming then trying to "tune" broadheads on crap arrows that are shoddily put together and getting totally frustrated. Since I've started doing this, I've had only one setup that I had to do major re-tuning with to get to shoot with my field points. Poor nock travel on that particular bow. Every other setup has yielded (assuming well tuned bow w/ field points), broadheads that hit right with field tips or at the most 2 inches out (usually low). A quick tweak of the rest and bingo.

I should charge for this stuff ;)

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

And excuse my spelling

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

Hey Jeffie, what ever happened to this thought[8D];):D

Having some fun, like the old days...;)

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

Discussing it and obsessing/arguing about it are two different things....didn't I tell you this before? :eek: yeesh.

And don't you have some Bull$hit to clean up? err...I mean.... Bullriding to cover or something?

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

No bull clean upuntil Sept. 17th and 18th (if Ft. Lauderdale hasn't been cancelled?) but I will be at the plant all next week (building myself an 06). [8D];):D

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

Geez..they got you sweepin floors at the plant now during your rodeo downtime?



(hell..I'd sweep floors for an 06 )

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

Only to pick up the e-clips I drop...;):D

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

TRUE , Thanks for the info .
Have you put the ac slims thru that contrapsion ?
Ive been woundering if they are as straight , and spine matched as the originals .
Since beman has discontinued the matrix shafts , Ill be shooting acc's or posably the new ac slims . Im glad I loaded up on the matrix's they have proven to be great shafts . Just when you find a good one they discontinue it [:@]

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

That kinda like "bendin over for the soap" out there in Oregon?

Pat and nameless employee, "picking up E-clips" at BowTech Factory----------------->

Sorry, I'm being quite sophmoric today

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

Hey Pat, how far are we from getting some leaked info on the '06 bows? [8D]

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

Back to seriousness. I have not Jimmy. My dealer and the employees there are going absolutely ape-poopy over them though, and trying to "convert" me.

Only thing I don't like is the X nock. (I actually *like* the nock, just no unibushing...that bugs me on A/C construction..too easy to separate the carb/alum bond on a nock end hit)

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

LMFAO...You're being your old self today and I like it...;):D

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

No leaks here...I'm sealed up with plumbers caulk...

I'll be shooting them all next week and bringing one home to hunt with...[8D]

And no ya'll can't come over... ;)

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

nothin bendin over to pick up a few e-clips won't fix

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Good to see ya stirin the pot again Jeff

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

Sure, rub it in like salt on an open wound! ;) BTW Pat just wanted to thank you guys for sending those bows over to our troops in Iraq. I've been keeping up with the details over at AT. I've been trying to get my sister-in-law to do a story on the archery club over there. She's a field reporter/journalist for the U.S. Army currently stationed in Baghdad.

RE: Arrow Spinner Vs. Arrow Straightener
 

BowTech isgood peoples...and even though I can't stand the SOB, Pat's a pretty good guy too