RE: Arrow FOC and other stuff....
 

Thanks Paul,

It's cool.... I don't exactly understand all the nuiances and intricate details to compound bows and arrows. A lot of it is over my head.

When I bare shaft arrow tested my bow, yes, I did use a junky old XX75 anyway. I first shot the 125gr field tip and was timid at first because I didn't know what the results would be at 20 yards. So, I aimed at the bottom of the target - thinking that the arrow might veer off somewhere into the next county. But, as I stated, the arrow w/o fletching hit the bottom of the target dead-on. The 100gr tip looked like it was porpoising and even though I was aiming at the bottom of the target, it hit the middle near the bullseye but angled a little bit. That told me that I should not shoot 100gr field tips out of my 2315's as they are too light in the tip.

I just remember the guys in the bowshop setting me up to shoot 2315's cut to 30.5" and shoot 125gr tips, balanced on a TM Hunter rest. Can't get much simpler than that! ;) The bow is still tuned beautifully with 125gr field tips, as I can get 1/2" groups at 20 yards and darn near Robin Hood an arrow. 30 yards, I can still get good groups too, maybe 1" or more at best. I love this old bow and am comfortable with how it shoots, so I don't want to booger it all up at this stage in the game. I was just trying to understand how an arrow flies with either a 100gr tip or a 125gr tip and the subtle differences.

Butch A.

EDIT: I just ordered a 3 pack of Slick Tricks in 125gr. I want to see what they are all about, since everyone says they fly just like field tips (therefore I got the 125gr ones). I figured, heck, I got $25 bucks (w/shipping) to spare, so I ordered them. They should be here in 4-5 days.

RE: Arrow FOC and other stuff....
 

I agree Arthur, I shouldn't be putting words in Bob's mouth. That was not very proper of me. However as far as it being dated he as commented on the subject as late as 2004. I don't think much has changed in a year.

From what I can tell he doesn't hold much stock in it, if any at all. He feels that any change you make in FOC also changes your spine. From what I can gather he feels that change in spine was the reason your arrow worked better, not the FOC ( he actually flat out states that).

I will also agree that he is kind of an old fashioned guy in his thinking. Sort of like someone else I know;) However, him and his family can probably shoot better than I can with thier eyes closed. So I have a tendancy not to want to argue with his points. Same way with you. I would never tell either of you that you were wrong. I may not always agree though, but then I don't have nearly the same amount of experience either.

I do feel FOC makes a difference, but only slightly. As in if you have too little it can make the arrow harder to tune if you don't have enough fletching. I think I feel about the same way as you about the percentages as well. I don't think there is an optimum number. It varies on each set up. I would think 9% would be the lower limit, not the optimum for hunting. For indoor spots it is probably not much of an issue.

I think in Matt Cleland's paper about shooting FITA he states he feels the tip weight should be one third of the total arrow weight. I would think this would give you adequate FOC. It's never been a huge concern for me since I shoot short arrows. Short arrows have better FOC with normal tip weights. And I shoot feathers, even better yet for increased FOC. Like you said though, a really long heavy arrow with vanes and a light tip would be pretty scary wouldn't it.

Paul

RE: Arrow FOC and other stuff....
 

Paul,

I have a lot of respect for what Bob Ragdale says, but I don't agree with everything he says. I would even say he probably is correct about this if we restrict our discussion to target arrows. However, if the situation is strictly hunting at very close ranges with a modern compound, in windy conditons and possible obstructions (using broadheads), then I disagree with the statement. A heavier tip will make a positive difference. It will be more difficult to knock a heavier-tipped arrow off line, with wind or twigs. Of course, spine must be adequate to handle the tip, but that holds true in all situations. The only thing you have to guard against is exceeding the arrow's spine and a trajectory with too great of a curve at the range you are shooting at.

The situation is different if we're referring to those using a longbow. Tip weight and arrow spine must be matched more closely to give the correct flight around the handle of the bow.

RE: Arrow FOC and other stuff....
 

I agree with you, I was just stating that it is the last factor I look at most of the time. But then I shoot fairly typical set ups and go overkill on my fletchings. I mean I shoot 5 inch feathers sometimes for spots. And like I said I shoot short arrows and feathers so I tend to have decent FOC no matter what.

I certainly would not suggest shooting a fixed blade and small vanes with a low FOC. I don't think you would get very good results and it would not be very forgiving, especially in the wind.

I don't take everything Bob says to heart either, but I certainly consider it. I was only showing what a pro thought about it.

In the case that Arthur mentioned. Like getting full length aluminum arrows with heavy vanes and super light tips. If you are doing that sort of stuff I would bet you have more problems going on than not having enough FOC. Of course that sure wouldn't help matters any.

And the lower the FOC you have the more criticle things become with the arrow and tune. You better have your bow tuned well and make darn sure you heads spin true and the arrows are straight. Sort of like shooting bare shafts.

Paul