Kenetic Energy
 

want to know what my kenitec energy will be

arrow weight is 235 and arrow is travelling at 340fps

RE: ke
 

I can't imagine which state allows you to shoot such a light arrow for hunting. At five grains per # you only at 47# good. Crazy?

RE: ke
 

Some states like Michigan do not have that many regulations on bow hunting. There is no minimum arrow weight here. Which is good because it is not something you can impose on every person with every set up. The limit would be set by some idiot that doesn't haven't a clue what he is talking about. You can't set a fixed arrow weight for set ups that vary that much in peak draw weight and length.

I personally would not shoot an arrow that lite at that speed, but I bet it zips right thru a deer any way. Some womens and kids set ups shoot lighter arrows at speeds no where near that and get pass thru's if it is put in the right spot.

That is 60 ft/lbs of energy by the way, more than what my set up creates with 400 grn arrows and 240 fps.

Go to this website and you can calculate your energy and ballistics to see what is happening farther down the line. Bowjackson's

I can't imagine that light of an arrow at that speed is too good for your bow though! I would not want to do it on regular basis unless you want to do maintenence on your bow frequently. I hope you at least have limb savers. And what arrow did you find that spines correctly for that set up?

Paul

RE: ke
 

yes, but paul yours has more momentum. there i stuck my finger in it, but just for giggles, i don't want to go down that road again.

RE: ke
 

That just sounds plain dangerous to me. I would rather not hunt than go to the emergency room with my bow limbs and string wrapped around my head.

RE: ke
 

Yeah just out of curiousity what pound bow is that and like was said before what arrow did you find to spine corrctly for you bow.

RE: ke
 

Maybe the numbers are reversed...a 340 grain arrow traveling at 235 fps. :)

Seriously though I would suggest trying www.bowjackson.com. He has a calculator there to determine such things as KE.

RE: ke
 

i am shootin a high country tss which is made to shoot light arrows

i have it set at 70 pounds
i am using goldtip ultralight arrows

arrows penetrate the target alot more then my old bow that was shooting a 460gr arrow

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

dear splint:
i am a speed fanatic myself however you have to be missing something here.your arrow might weigh 235 grains then you add the knock insert fletches and tip that will get you your total arrow weight. if your shot a complete arrow of 235gr at 70 lbs and a 28 to 30 inch draw, we will be hearing about your trip to the hospitol.
as stated preveously you must achieve 5 gr per in on your arrow per pound or you WILL destroy your bow! keep shooting it that way and you will see.
as far as a bow being made to shoot lighter arrows that is a sales pitch!
next have you chorongraphed your arrow or are you going by some chart?
i have the fastest bow out on the market right now bowtech BK 2 with a completed arrow weighing 360 gr i am in the 323 range. big difference there. if you choose to keep shooting it that way let us know how you do.

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

we've had guys on here telling us those bows are designed to shoot under 5 gpi, but 230 is pretty low.

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

But they will not warrant the bow if you are not using their speed proarrows which they say is spined right but from what I have heard they are a very fragile arrow. I think Rack tested some a while back but I could be wrong on that

To get Gold Tips that light you are way under spined and in danger of having an arrow explode on release which is not a very pretty sight so I hope you have good medical insurance.

My advise is dont go below 5 grains per pound of draw weight for your own safety in otherwords get that arrow weight up to 350 grains.

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

Try here http://www.archeryhq.com/kin.htm

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

a high country dealer told me others where shooting this arrow with the same bow. i have probably had around 350 shots out of it and has preformed fine.

i am probably gonna switch to the speed pro arrows when i find them, but the goldtips shoot perfect so far

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

They will probably handle the lighter arrows, especially if your draw length is under 30 inches. However that does not mean it is good on it. Shooting a light arrow takes a toll on a bow. It causes a lot of stress and vibration. Not too good on your string and other things.

Remember alot of guys that compete and shoot ultra light arrows and super fast speeds do not buy thier equipment or keep it very long. And they do regular maintenence to it. So they don't care how much abuse it takes. Sort of like a race car.

Paul

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

forgot to account for the insert
arrow is 29inches long shooting 5.7 grain per inch =165.3 +55 grain broadhead=220.3+ 25insert+15for 2inch vanes
total arrow weight is around 260.30Grains. This is the hunting setup
the target 165.3+100+25+15= 305.3 grains

hunting setup KE is 68

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

You forgot the nock as well. A 55 grn broad head? Where did you find something like that? I have never seen them under 75 grns. I'd be curious to see what your arrow actually weighs on a scale.

When you gave your numbers I thought that was the actual weight of the arrow, not estimated. Is the speed a verified number as well from a chrono, or an estimation?

Dude, I just did some checking. What is your actual set up. Verified draw weight and draw length. Let me see if I have this correct. You are shooting a Goldtip ultralight Pro target arrow with 5.7 grns per inch of weight. That means you are shooting a 600 spine arrow at 29 inches out of a 70 lb bow with probably 29 inches of draw. Who sold you this set up? That is waaaaaaaaaaay wrong, like dangerous wrong! You should not shoot that arrow out of your bow any more. According to Goldtips chart it spines for a 30 lb bow at that length, and thier charts are notorious for being off on the weak side.

Not to mention the set up you listed is 3.4 grn per pound and would have an FOC of 6 percent. And if you are talking about a 55 grn nib point you would not use an insert with that, so the arrow would be lighter than you figured. That is one of the worst arrow set ups I have ever seen, not to mention just not safe.

Your post gets confusing at the end, are you talking about having a different set up for hunting where you are using a 100 grn head? If that is the case your spine will be even weaker yet. Not too mention it will tune completely different than the target set up. And with that spine and those small vanes with a 100 grn broad head I doubt it will tune. Maybe with mechanicals, but I doubt they will function too well.

If this is really your set up you need to seriously re-think it and change some things. If a shop set you up with this I want to know the name of it. I never want to shop there, or have any one I know shop there. And if you purchased them off the internet yourself, well that is exactly the reason I urge people so hard to go to a shop to get set up.

Paul

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

Ok I went to High Country's site and checked out the speed pro arrows, and I saw the 55 grn broad heads. So I guess they do have them, I have never seen anything like that before though. They look like Ultimate Steel heads, so they should work pretty good.

However there is a big difference between the goldtips and the speedpros. The speedpro's are actually a tad heavier and have much more spine. If you want to shoot that light of an arrow get the ones made for your bow, not the goldtips

Paul

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

i got the speed from a chrono

the goldtips are 5.7 gpi
if you look at the test on the chart it says the speed pro's are 5.50gpi ,

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

shouldnt the arrows hit funny if the arrow is underspined?

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

Ok, your right about the weight, I must have got them turned around when I was typing it. I was looking at a lot of data though. The weight isn't my main concern though. It is the fact that if you are shooting the 600 spine goldtips they are way underspined for your bow. And I would guess that would void your warranty as well. They say you can shoot that bow with light arrows, but not arrows that are spined incorrectly for it. A weaker arrow does not give as much resistance to the force applied to it and will flex more. This is just like shooting a lighter arrow.

As far as if the arrows will hit funny, well that is a subjective thing. How exactly are the arrows you have set up? First of all it depends on what you consider good groups and at what distance. I don't have any trouble grouping weak spined arrows if they have enough FOC and have target tips on them. Especially at 20 yards. At longer yardages they get a bit trickier to shoot and are not as forgiving.

I can even get weak arrows to paper tune right out of the bow if I dink with them enough. I doubt you would get them to bareshaft tune though. And I find it highly unlikely they will fly worth a darn with fixed broad heads on them. You might get them to group ok (maybe) but I bet they will not impact any where near your field points. I'm talking feet, not inches. You can get a way with a lot on a target arrow at 20 and 30 yards if you have good enough form and adequate FOC and fletching. However fixed heads are much more sensitive.

Even if they do fly ok for you, I am more concerned that you will injur yourself, someone else or damage your bow. There is a good chance one of those arrows could snap when you shoot it. And when it does your bow may go with it. I would hate to be the one standing next to you when it happens.

I'm not going to argue the point of shooting light arrows with you, that is your decision. I know many others that do it as well. I have even shot pretty light arrows for my set up before (nothing like what you are doing though). Is what we are telling you is if you are shooting the arrows we think you are they are absolutely the wrong arrows for your set up and you should quit shooting them and get the correct ones. If you want to shoot light arrows get the ones that are spined for your set up.

If you could see a slow motion video of what your arrow looks like when you launch it and it hits the target you would crap your pants.

Paul

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

I just want to make it clear, I'm not trying to be a prick, I just don't want to see you get hurt is all.

Paul

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

i think that's obvious paul. you're doing a good job of explaining things in a good way.

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

Splint, you need to take a longe look at a photo of an shattered carbon arrow going through an arm. It's about as ugly a wound as you'll ever want to see. Carbon fibers are nasty, and you are at a very high risk of experiencing it first hand. Splint may be a more appropriate name than you realize. Those arrows are simply not designed to reliably hold up under that kind of force.

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

Splint, some of the stuff I am reading is confusing me a bit. Just for the sake of clarity could you tell us what your set up was when you chronoed your bow. I need AMO draw length, measured peak weight, The measured draw length, the brand and size of arrow, the length of the arrow from the notch in the nock to the insert, the type and size of fletching your are using and the grain weight of your tip. And the known weight of your finnished arrow if you have it (from a scale, not estimated).

Thank you,
Paul

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

not sure of exact arrow weight
measured draw length is 31
amo draw length is 32.75
70lb draw
29inch goldtip ultralight 5.7gpi
2 inch duravanes
55gr broadhead
340 through chrono

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

I dont really wanna get in on this but YES ur arrow is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY underspined

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

60.34 foot punds decent for a deer

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

Are you tellling me you have a 31 inch module or cams on the bow and you actually draw it 33 inches?! Are you like seven foot tall or something? That acounts for the extra speed I was wondering about though.

You found a shop that let you chrono a bow with a broad head on it? This must be the same shop that told you those arrows were ok with that set up. And those actually fly fairly decent with a fixed blade on them? I find that amazing to say the least.

It would have really helped to know you were drawing 33 inches. You need to take into acount for overdraw. I assumed you had a 29 inch or maybe 30 inch draw. You are even more severely underspined than we originally thought.

If you have a camera I would like to see a pic of you at full draw. And out of curiousity, what type of rest do you shoot? You have another post about your arrows hitting your rest and not grouping well. Are you still using the ultra rest? And if you were using these arrows that is most likely your problem.

Paul

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

This is the diagram i used to get the amo draw length.From the end of the riser to the nock grove. Is this correct?

The arrows were not grouping becasue a spring had falled out of place, so the rest was not fallingwhen it should have,and i had to fix it.
I got the numbers from the chrono at my house.I have stopped using the goldtips and am going to buy some speed pro arrows

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

If you used that diagram to get your draw length then that would be your (amo) draw length. Providing you did it correctly. The easiest way is to draw the bow with a long arrow in it and have someone mark the arrow right above where you grip the bow. Then add 1.75 inches to that and that is your AMO draw length.

So am I correct to assume your draw length is 31 inches measuring that way? If so what method did you use to come up with the 33 inches you listed. It is partly my fault, I made a typo when I asked for your specs. I meant for measured draw and AMO draw to be the same. I was supposed to cut one of the lines and forgot[:o]. I just wanted to make sure you had the correct draw length and not just what the bow said. You cannot always go by the cams, sometimes they are not right. It is better to actually measure it to be sure.

I think you actually draw 30 or 31 inches, because if it is 33 inches you would have to have your rest set up with some overdraw to shoot a 29 inch arrow. You can probably get a little out of that rest, but I don't think that much. I've never seen that rest up close though.

I am glad you decided to get different arrows as well. Another suggestion I would make is to not use too different set ups. You said something about using a 55 head for one thing and then a 100 grn head for something else. You should just pick one and compromise. The speed difference will not be that big from one to the other, but the tune and FOC might be.

I would say if you want a light small diameter head go with an 85 grn head, that way it will be easier to get the heads and practice points. Just make sure your not real light on FOC, which I don't think you will be with that light of arrows.

Paul

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

yes my draw is 31 inches. I added 1.75 to get 31.75AMO

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

:Dhere is you're kinetice energy for that set-up 60.33. and here is the formula to firure it with. SPEED X SPEED X WEIGHT DIVIDED BY 450240 THIS WILL GIVE YOU THE KINETIC ENERGY OF YOU'RE ARROW. GOOD LUCK JIM

RE: Kenetic Energy
 

I agree with G2 shooter.I dont want to be around when you shoot it.I shoot 330 grn at 290fps I go threw any animal I shoot.I figure before long we will shoot 200 grn at 500 fps.Just remeber the fastest bow made is still slower than the bb gun at walmart