Hair slip during pickling.
 

I'm in the process of tanning a doe skin for my daughter and now that I have pickled it for three days I noticed that the hair will pull out fairly easily. It does not fall out but if you pull at all it will come right out. Is this normal. Will it tighten up later when I apply the tan? Thanks.

RE: Hair slip during pickling.
 

Don't pull on it, it should tighten up. There are many things that influence slippage, from improper ph to improper field care. Have you ever checked www.taxidermy.net ? Go there and click on forum, from there find the orange button labeled search, click on it and type in "causes of slippage" or something similar, get a drink and a sandwich and sit back and read all about it. I have your situation happen before, and it tightened up. Hope it helps.

RE: Hair slip during pickling.
 

That's not slippage. When you have slippage, you'll KNOW it.:D

RE: Hair slip during pickling.
 

There was some hair floating in the water. Not an extreme amount mind you, but some. I hope it was pickled enough. It still had a wet skin smell to it. Is that normal? I am using saftee acid and Mckenzie tan. It is now sitting with the tan on it till tomorrow, then I will oil it. I don't know how anybody makes money at this. I have so many hours in this one skin I won't even tell you how many. Funny thing is, I am not turned off or discouraged one bit. Whatever happens, I will take it on the chin and learn from it. My wife is getting lonely already.
If it turns out to be no good, my only regret will be that I wanted it to turn out nice for my daughter.

RE: Hair slip during pickling.
 

Yes, I suppose it smells like wet skin, because it is.:DSome of those hairs could have simply been hairs that were cut during caping. Is this for a mount or a hanging? If for a mount,there's no need to oil after the McKenzie tan. It doesn't take too many capes under your belt to realize how useful a shaving maching would be. Everything gets faster the more you do, but I still spend more time thinning with a skife knife and scalpal than I do on any other part of the mounting process.

RE: Hair slip during pickling.
 

The skin is for decoration. I bought the oil to try to soften it enough that is isn't like a sheet of plywood. The hair will pull out easily but it does not just fall out. I was looking in the archives on Tax.net and realized that I too had bought the salt with yellow "something" of soda in it. I hope it doesn't goof up the whole mess. Like I said....live and learn.

RE: Hair slip during pickling.
 

It could be many thing, including hair that was cut when you skinned it. I also use Saftee Acid and Mckenzies tan. Keep in mind that deer hair is hollow and real brittle. It won't take much abuse from children before the hair starts to break off. It's good that you have the attitude you do, taxidermy and working with fur will humble you until you get the hang of it. The salt you used isn't the best but it will work, the yellow stuff is iodine ( I believe), but salt is used to draw the moisture out. And for a rug type it will be softer if you oil it and break it. Did you get the kit with the video? Breaking it will be the biggest pain, at least to get it soft. I have people call me about doing deer rugs and when I tell them $125, they are shocked. I did a beaver once and the work that went into that one was enough to teach me that I will send them to a tannery from now on.

RE: Hair slip during pickling.
 

Your pickle was too weak, You need pH testing paper and PH should be 3.
And you can never have too much salt, add as much salt as the water will absorbed.

What chemical did you use for the pickle ?

RE: Hair slip during pickling.
 

Safety acid has to be checked and spiked after the first few hours, as the skin itself will change the level once its put into the pickle solution. Mix it as per Bruce's recipe, put the skin in, and then bring the pH back down below 2 the next day. How you handled the skin prior to pickle is where the best chance of slippage lies, besides the pH level. On a flat hide, a half hours worth of rough fleshing/beaming and then a few days of salt and draining is whats best.

RE: Hair slip during pickling.
 

Safetee acid

The thing is like a wet noodle that won't dry out. If I grab a good size pinch of hair and pull, nothing happens. If I grab a single hair it will snap out fairly easily. Maybe I expect too much, I don't know.
I added acid the day after going into the pickle. Like I said, I bought the salt with "Yellow prussiate of soda" in it. I don't have a source right now for plain granulated salt with no other ingredients. I bought it at a feed store. The salt was used in the pickle stage as well as for salting the hide.
I mixed a 10 gallon batch, figuring there was alot of hide to acidify. I'm trying to get it to dry some so I can oil it, figuring the oil won't absorb into a wet noodle very well.
I got the skin from my butcher, I have no idea about itprior toitfalling into my hands
If I hit the lottery, first thing I'm buying is a fleshing machine!

Bill...are you saying that tanning it isn't necessary, just flesh and salt dry it ?

RE: Hair slip during pickling.
 

I think what Bill's saying is to minimize the handeling time. Get it fleshed in into the salt as quickly as possible. Again, what your seeing isn't slippage, and likely not anything to be worried about, assuming I understand what your seeing. Pull on a single hair on a live deer and it too may pull out. Theskin is at it's weakest point when wet, so just stop pulling on it andit should be fine.When you have slippage, large clumps of hair will slough off, with almost no pressure needed.There's no mistaking it. As for the salt, ask the feed store for plain white mixing salt. I'd be awfully suprised if they didn't have it. Tractor Supply usually has it too.

RE: Hair slip during pickling.
 

It is not slipping then. The numerous hairs floating in the pickle had me worried. I guess I have a problem though because my own hair is getting thinner by the day.

"Is this mole getting redder, Clark?"
"Well yea, Mom, you keep touching it, it's gonna get redder"

Thanks all!

RE: Hair slip during pickling.
 

I just realized, I shouldn't have said "large" clumps will slough off. It can also be a small area. Still, you won't have to pull on it for it to slip. Eventually, your going to have one slip on you. Sometimes you just can't help it. I once handled a buck that I could push large clumps of hair out, within 1 hour of it being shot, with just a finger. I'm not sure if it was technically "slippage", but I doubt it would have made it through the tanning process. All you can do is do your best to follow the directions and hope for the best.:DIt get's easier as you go.

RE: Hair slip during pickling.
 

I now noticed that the areas that are drying are turning dark brown. If I stretch the area it turns cream colored and gets leathery. Does that mean that a skin you tan for mounting will turn dark brown as it dries on the form? I just wonder if this is normal or ifI did something wrong in the whole tanning process. I need to know what is right before I waste a skin from a nice buck someday. I thought that Mckenzie states that their tan produces a white stretchy leather. This whole hide is gonna turn dark brown when it dries, I can see it coming now. I didn't get the kit with a video, just the basic tanning kit. I followed the instructions from their caping, fleshing and tanning for mounting video thatI bought before.

RE: Hair slip during pickling.
 

Im trying to be as basic and simple as I can...

Start with the raw skin. Hoping its fresh off the animal, you quickly pull the meat and fat from it, beam it, and get the salt on it, the additive you spoke of is simply there to keep it from clumping. Let it drain in salt for a few days or so, shake it all off and get it into the pickle. Hair floating on the surface DOES mean its slipping. You can have slipping in chunks or just random loose hairs. You havent mentioned, but you have to check the pH. If its freshly beamed and CLEAN of all membranes, and salted correctly, and put into a pickle with the proper pH, then theres not much room for error. The exception would be well water, with bacteria present, or possibly some high mineral levels, I suppose. Im also assuming you know to put the pickle in a plastic pail, NOT METAL. Then youll need to thin the skin some, before neutralizing the skin, draining, and applying the tan. Even then, once the skin is tanned, you have to break it as it dries to produce that light colored tanned skin you desire.

So, you need to address those questions before these guys can advise you further. Now you see why we love our commercial tanneries? LOL! Good luck livbucks.

RE: Hair slip during pickling.
 

Perhaps I'm giving some bad advice. I typically have some loose hairs from trimming off the back part of the hide. I made an ASSUMPTION that's what you were seeing, and I shouldn't have. I don't know exactly what the dark skin is from. All mine are white, but I thin them down. That could be the difference, but that's another assumption.;)Yep, those tanneries are sounding better and better, aren't they?:D

RE: Hair slip during pickling.
 

Are you saying that your hides stay white after they completely dry? The dark brown is forming in the thin skin areas of the inside rear legs (butt cheeks). I don't think you are giving bad advice at all. The hair is much tighter now that it is drying, just like you said Magis. I can grab a pinch and tug like hell and it holds tight. I probably goofed up somewhere but it will turn out good enough for it's intended purpose. Thanks!

Thanks Bill Y. for spelling it all out to me.

RE: Hair slip during pickling.
 

To be honest, I don't pay much attention to what it looks like when dry. It's white when wet (actually a very faint light blue when thinned properly), but maybe off white when dry. The only part I can see dryare the scraps I throw away, and I don't watch them close. Maybe try shaving off a thin layer with a knife to see if it's just on the surface. I shouldn't have said it WASN'T slippage, because it certainly could have been. I was just being optimistic.:D

RE: Hair slip during pickling.
 

M.Magis and I are of course speaking in generalities, as theres variables in this. He and I both are just throwing some thoughts out there, as we would have to be quite specific before we could say with certainty what was what. Hope it all works well for you.