Help
 

Alright, this is the first time on this forum; I spend most of my time on the hunting forum. I started 3D shooting and shoot at the local shop. I have a hunting rig and I'm looking into getting a comp bow OR just getting into the hunting class and see how I do. I am at a point whereI think that I am at my max with my equipment. I have a 101 with an HHA 5500 site w/o a lens. I'd love to trick out a comp bow and see how I do but I really don't likesome of the rumors that I heard about the IBO rules. I went to the website and I am confused on the speed and site. Ishoot at 310 fps@66#@367grains. Is thispermitted? I adjust my yardage since I have 1 pin. Is this permitted? If the speed limit is 280fps and you can't adjust your site, then I think that I shouldjust keep what I am doing which is shooting in localleagues. I have a million questions about comp shooting and I am at a cross roads. Also, I am 37 and have missed my calling, but I would like to see well I do. Any suggestions?

RE: Help
 

Hi niehenke -

Simple answer YES! Well there are two arrow speed specification you can meet either one fist one is 5grains per pound of bow pull (66x5=330) so anything above 330grains total arrow weight is ok! Second rule or speed no faster that 280fps! Since your arrow is 367 grains and your bow is 66 pounds you are ok! If the arrow weigh was 329grains you would be in trouble as you would not meet either rule!

Second question yes one pin is fine as IBO has the bow hunter release which is a fixed pin sight! Your equipment may fit into several classes.

Many IBO archers shoot and qualify in several classes and make the final decision of which class to compete in at the world event. So yes you can qualify in more than one class. Only catch is if you are a Semi-Pro or Pro archer once you achieve those levels there is no turning back!

By the way! Sounds like you have the perfect setup for 3D target shooting, depending on where you want to go with it! Outdoor 3D target shooting has its down falls - You have wind, temperature, humid and not to mention the obstructions and mind games but it is all in fun and if you don't take it to seriously it can be a great way to justget outdoors and have some fun! It is allot like golf your worst enemy is yourself!

Enjoy

Mike -

RE: Help
 

Thank you very much for your help. I would like to geta lens, clarifier, different site, etc. but I don't want to lose a perfect hunting bow. I called the dealer tonight to ask for his opinion on a target bow. He is putting together a list for me. Rather than buying and returning products, it is much easier to ask the experts what works and why. He suggested the sentinel with my long draw 30.5". I was shocked to see that it had the same axel to axel as my 101. Also, it was strange to see the 82 having a 36 axle to axle. I could have swore the 08 82nd was shorter. I looked at the brigadier and it is a 40 axle to axle and has an 8" brace height. Not sure if I like the design but if it is performs, then I am sure my opinion would change. I like the fire finish. I am clueless on the site, lens, clarifier, release, etc. I tried a back tension release and gave up quickly, but I need to get away from the wrist releases. After shooting for an hour, they slide forward and cause me to make a few mistakes like riding over the hump. Does anyone have any suggestions for target bows/equipmentand why?

RE: Help
 

The 280 rule is for the short draw archers.It is a safety rule that allows them to go under the 5 grain rule as long as they stay at or under 280 fps.


You can NOT use a moveable sight in the hunter class.You would have to step back and shoot from the open stake,which would not be advisable as a beginner.


BUT,you can go and have fun with your equipment and just tell them that you are not competing.Just shooting for fun.

RE: Help
 

Missed your calling? Nah. ;)


It's a blast you'll love it.


Even if you don't want to trick out a Competition rig just yet, you can go to just about any club and shoot a practice round with your setup, just to see how you like it.

RE: Help
 

niehenke
Believe me your current setup is better than most! Most guys shoot with their hunting setup with field points! It is no biggy, on the equipment, it is much better to shoot what you have than spend thousands and find out you don't like it! Just go shoot a couple of rounds!

I know a BowTech company Archer that makes the rounds with your exact bow setup, it is a 101, with the HHA scope, a vital gaer drop rest! The 101 is turned down to 55# and he still seeing 318 fps. The difference is his arrows are all matched balanaced, spined, and weights are within a grain of each other and weigh in to a couple of grains of the IBO Rules. He won't tell what his forward of center balance is on the arrows but I bet they are all the same also! He is always within 5 points of the total score. So go with what you have maybe get some better arrows that are closer to the IBO wieghts.

I have seen this guy hit a quarter size dot at 87 yards on the first shot to win $250.00 prize. I have shot with him and he is very good at judging the distances in any layout. Oh know one told you that I bet! That is the mind games, targets are at different distances under different circumstances. For example a deer at 33 yards with a tunnel shot when the deer is up to its belly in tall grass with no trees around to judge the distance looks like a 45 yard shot. You will go right over the top every time!

Mike -

RE: Help
 

If you want to get a new bow you can absolutely do that, but if you like your bow, you can also turn it into a open class rig that you can quickly re-outfit for hunting. I shoot spots, 3D and hunt all with one bow (I have two more bows on the way as money permits). I have three sights... an HHA, a Spot-Hogg and a Vital Gear Triangle. I will swap those sights out... depending on what I am going for and what class I am shooting in. I shoot 3D with the VG because I need less than five pins and the local clubs won't permit moveable sights in the hunter class. I hunt with the HHA or the Spot-Hogg. I shoot spots with the HHA, though I haven't bought a lens for it yet.

Now, I have a Specialty Archery Products peep sight. I have the larger 1/4" model that has the inserts. It allows you to switch from a standard peep, to a verifier (which is used without a lens... most older shooters hunt with them as it allows you to focus clearly on both your target and your pins) and then switch to a clarifyer (which is used with a lens in spots).

Since you have an HHA sight, all you really need is one of those peeps, the tool to insert the lenses in the peep, and if you choose a lens in your HHA. The peep and a single clarifier will run you around $50. Lenses for HHAs cost anywhere from $60-$120 depending on magnification.

Of course, if you want to get a Brig.... I totally understand that too. :D

RE: Help
 

So here is where I am at. My goal is a 300 on a 5 spot, but I can't do it. I got a 299 a week ago, but could not seal the deal. I have been trying for a year now since I bought my 101. I am seeing my scores level out on 3D. Out of 360, my high is 319 with an average of 309. I have a 6x lens but I can't use it because I need to add the clarifier.If I add the clarifier and upgrade on the site or just add the lens, then I start switching back and forth between hunting and target. Seems like a bit of a pain. Getting another bow might be easier. Please do not misunderstand me. I love to shoot and get out at least 2 timesa week, but I just keep pushing myself to get better and manification might help. The other thing is that I am killing my shoulders with this 67#s and shooting as much as I am at one time. For hunting, it is perfect. Shooting 150 arrows at a sitting is too much. I crank it down but then my label on my site changes a bit. Can you tell me if you have been in this position where you feel that you need some equipment advantage? At the 3D course, I am within the top 3 but there is a completely different group than at the other indoor range where 300s are common during the league. I am not in a league there, but maybe that is where I need to join to get some advice. I had asked the owner what class of shooters were in the league and he said that some were 300 with high 50xs. That is amazing to me. I'd love to pick up their bow and see what the differnce would be. Thanks for all of the advice. I have the most respect for all of you and your patience and willingness to help.

RE: Help
 

Are you wanting a spot bow or a 3-d bow? Those are different animals with different setups.

Indoor you use high power lenses with clarifiers and slow very forgiving bows at low poundage.

3-d you try for more speed while still maintaing a forgiving bow with lighter faster arrows at more poundage for downrange energy.

Most are using fat arrows in both 3-d and indoor.Indoor shooters use heavy points(200-300 grain) to break down the spine of the fat stiff aluminum arrows.

3-d arrow are usually fat carbon arrows with lighter points in the 10-12% foc rang.

you can use pins or slidebars in either but the top classes in both use slide bar sights.

RE: Help
 

Hi

Tfox is correct that most of the 3D archers are using carbon shaft arrows and they are fat! I assumed you knew that! These fat arrows make up for a fair amount of error! I have seen the difference in the range of 15 to 25 points across a course. Remember in most 3D shoots if the arrow breaks the line it is the next highest score. It is fairly simple a fat shaft arrow just covers more area than the normal shaft arrow so that 8 becomes a 10 because the fat shaft broke the 10 line. You need to check the rules of the course as there is a diameter limitation that was adopted last year to keep the archers from using telephone poles as arrows!!! Hmmm!

Yep that indoor spot shooting is a little different! I amazed me when I watched a shoot that the archers could shoot so many arrows that quickly! I was taken back on the first shoot I saw with the longer bows and the small diameter NANO arrows they were using! Sorry all I could think of was how that setup would be in a Tree Stand!

Ok I guess I am just a hunter at heart!

By the way niehenke congrads, on the 299 out of 300, sounds good to me!

Mike -:eek:

RE: Help
 

I have rarely seen more than a 2-4 point difference with fat shafts and that was only when 12's were in play.Fat shafts advantage is only the difference between the skinny shaft and fat shaft divided by 2.In most cases,this is less than a 1/32 of an inch.

For me it was an advantage staying with skinny shafts due to shooting in the open class where 45 yard shots were common and considering I was using a low poundage setup,my groups were much tighter at distance so skinny shafts were better.That being said,if I had more energy,I would definately take advantage of the fat shaft.

RE: Help
 

I absolutely agree with TFOX about fat shafts for outdoor 3D shooting. Using my X7s I might have turned a couple 290s into 295s at best (thats out of 300 counting 10s and 330 counting 11s).

Now indoor spot shooting is a whole different animal.

Look at the difference between a Maxima 3D select and a 2612 aluminum. If your shaft hits anywhere inside the 10 ring on a vegas target it will cut the X ring too. Keep in mind that I'm talking about keeping the shaft INSIDE the ten ring.... not hitting the ten ring. But you compare that to your standard size carbons that you can fit neatly between the 10 and X rings... and that can really add up.

I'm a decent 3D shooter, but I have trouble with spots. My best score is in the 280s out of 300. I tend to put a lot of pressure on myself. I would probably do better if I used a lens to be honest. I tend not to... just use the hunting set up with a fatter arrow. Works ok.... I need to get a target bow though.

What do you think TFOX 38 Pro... Pro Elite....Vantange Pro??? :D

RE: Help
 

Vantage Elite for spots[8D]

Pro elite with spirals for 3-d[:-]

That is ,of course,if money is no object.:D

RE: Help
 

Hmmmmm I love to shoot both spots and 3D and hunt. So now I need 3 bows. Not sure that I want to approach the wife with that suggestion. Getting 1 more might be possible so it looks like I should make a decision between spot and 3D. I took a few minutes so it is 3D. I really don't want to be switching equipment between hunting and 3D. The bow that I have now is a hunting/working bow. For instance, I was pushing through the briars today chasing bunnies. I really wouldn't want to do that with a 3D bow. For 3D, do you use a lens and clarifier? Any sites that you recommend? I have a scott sabertooth release and can't stand the front forward design. My anchor points are all messed up. I like everything else. For the arrows, I will stick with the smaller diameter arrows based on the comments above.

RE: Help
 

Hi Again -

I still think you have a good setup for 3D go out and try it! Believe me there is allot more to 3D than the equipment! You might not like it as better than 60% is the skill to judge the target distance and adjustment for down hill and up hill all while avoiding the obstructions. It is nothing like spots where you know the distance, it is on level ground, easy for a good stance, with no obstructions, and no wind if inside.

I guess I am stumped here with your lens or clarifier! Usually, a clarifier is used alone in the peep site for those of us that are over 40 and need cheaters to read, does wonders for that halo effect around the pin. The scope lens usually requires two lenses one on the scope and the other in the peep together they offer magnification! Another trick is to use a smaller aperture peep sight! The small hole acts like a cameras lens and clears things up! Down side it is not very good in dim light, like in the woods at dust.

Best of luck with the wife!

Mike -:eek:

RE: Help
 

If I were you,leave your hunting bow a hunting bow and shoot it in the hunter class.Then set up a 3-d/indoor bow.You can shoot fat,light carbons with glue in points and short 2"-3" vanes.Get a bow like a 38 pro from Hoyt or the 7-37.Both these bows would serve you well in both arenas.Personally,I would think sticking with pins at first and staying away from the open class and learning to judge yardage would be advisable.This would put you in the MBR class which is usually the next to farthest stake.I would also suggest staying conservative on draw weight,especially with it being a spot bow as well.You should be able to shoot a 63-65# bow and get 280 fps+ and still be able to bust some spots with it.

RE: Help
 

Over the weekend I attempted my 300 round (5 spot) again and I was on my 59th arrow sitting on 37xsand scored a 4 and followed it with 3. I need someone to keep score for me because I put way to much pressure on myself to meet this goal.Oh well, I got next weekend. I am going to frame that target if it ever happens. Also,we are half way through the season on 3D and I am sittingin 1stout of 56 shooters with and without the handicap.As a team, we are in first as well. Whata rush. Got to love this sport. I did speak to someone over the weekend about the different classes and now I am understanding whyI need to start in the hunter class.I was thinking that the skill levelbetween hunter and the next wasn't that much of a leap, but I was told that it is huge. SO, it makes sense tomove to pins, try a hunter class, and then buy additional equipment and practice if I fall deep into it. Thanks for all of the help.Sun was out and so were the turkeys today, what a great thing.

RE: Help
 

You must always remember to focus on the next shot because that is the ONLY shot that matters.SCORE doesn't exist untill the shoot is over.EACH AND EVERY SHOT is a new shot and a new game.Forget score,remember shot sequence.;)

RE: Help
 

In 3-d,staying in the hunter class will help you to learn to judge yardage.When you put a slide bar on,you need to already know how to judge.Especially with the added distance,and I am not even talking about the difference of competition.

RE: Help
 

Shotmy highest score today in 3d. 322/360. 12 (12s), 17 (10s), 1 (8). Nowif I can pull that off on league night. Did not get down to trymy attempt at the 300 this weekend but I did go to the deer and turkey show. I picked up the sentinel and it seemed to be pretty heavy. One thing that I did notice was the huge increase in short bows.I just don't understand it. I had one for7 years and would not go back after having a 36 axle to axle. I did notice that Hoyt came out with a light bow. I picked up a few PSEs and the grip was just not me. Family was with me so I did not get a chance to pick up the mathews.