Help
01-28-2009, 06:13 PM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 343
Help
Alright, this is the first time on this forum; I spend most of my time on the hunting forum. I started 3D shooting and shoot at the local shop. I have a hunting rig and I'm looking into getting a comp bow OR just getting into the hunting class and see how I do. I am at a point whereI think that I am at my max with my equipment. I have a 101 with an HHA 5500 site w/o a lens. I'd love to trick out a comp bow and see how I do but I really don't likesome of the rumors that I heard about the IBO rules. I went to the website and I am confused on the speed and site. Ishoot at 310 fps@66#@367grains. Is thispermitted? I adjust my yardage since I have 1 pin. Is this permitted? If the speed limit is 280fps and you can't adjust your site, then I think that I shouldjust keep what I am doing which is shooting in localleagues. I have a million questions about comp shooting and I am at a cross roads. Also, I am 37 and have missed my calling, but I would like to see well I do. Any suggestions?
02-03-2009, 08:38 AM
#2
Join Date: May 2007
Location:
Posts: 45
RE: Help
Hi niehenke -
Simple answer YES! Well there are two arrow speed specification you can meet either one fist one is 5grains per pound of bow pull (66x5=330) so anything above 330grains total arrow weight is ok! Second rule or speed no faster that 280fps! Since your arrow is 367 grains and your bow is 66 pounds you are ok! If the arrow weigh was 329grains you would be in trouble as you would not meet either rule!
Second question yes one pin is fine as IBO has the bow hunter release which is a fixed pin sight! Your equipment may fit into several classes.
Many IBO archers shoot and qualify in several classes and make the final decision of which class to compete in at the world event. So yes you can qualify in more than one class. Only catch is if you are a Semi-Pro or Pro archer once you achieve those levels there is no turning back!
By the way! Sounds like you have the perfect setup for 3D target shooting, depending on where you want to go with it! Outdoor 3D target shooting has its down falls - You have wind, temperature, humid and not to mention the obstructions and mind games but it is all in fun and if you don't take it to seriously it can be a great way to justget outdoors and have some fun! It is allot like golf your worst enemy is yourself!
Enjoy
Mike -
Simple answer YES! Well there are two arrow speed specification you can meet either one fist one is 5grains per pound of bow pull (66x5=330) so anything above 330grains total arrow weight is ok! Second rule or speed no faster that 280fps! Since your arrow is 367 grains and your bow is 66 pounds you are ok! If the arrow weigh was 329grains you would be in trouble as you would not meet either rule!
Second question yes one pin is fine as IBO has the bow hunter release which is a fixed pin sight! Your equipment may fit into several classes.
Many IBO archers shoot and qualify in several classes and make the final decision of which class to compete in at the world event. So yes you can qualify in more than one class. Only catch is if you are a Semi-Pro or Pro archer once you achieve those levels there is no turning back!
By the way! Sounds like you have the perfect setup for 3D target shooting, depending on where you want to go with it! Outdoor 3D target shooting has its down falls - You have wind, temperature, humid and not to mention the obstructions and mind games but it is all in fun and if you don't take it to seriously it can be a great way to justget outdoors and have some fun! It is allot like golf your worst enemy is yourself!
Enjoy
Mike -
02-04-2009, 05:30 PM
#3
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 343
RE: Help
Thank you very much for your help. I would like to geta lens, clarifier, different site, etc. but I don't want to lose a perfect hunting bow. I called the dealer tonight to ask for his opinion on a target bow. He is putting together a list for me. Rather than buying and returning products, it is much easier to ask the experts what works and why. He suggested the sentinel with my long draw 30.5". I was shocked to see that it had the same axel to axel as my 101. Also, it was strange to see the 82 having a 36 axle to axle. I could have swore the 08 82nd was shorter. I looked at the brigadier and it is a 40 axle to axle and has an 8" brace height. Not sure if I like the design but if it is performs, then I am sure my opinion would change. I like the fire finish. I am clueless on the site, lens, clarifier, release, etc. I tried a back tension release and gave up quickly, but I need to get away from the wrist releases. After shooting for an hour, they slide forward and cause me to make a few mistakes like riding over the hump. Does anyone have any suggestions for target bows/equipmentand why?
02-04-2009, 06:09 PM
#4
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Help
The 280 rule is for the short draw archers.It is a safety rule that allows them to go under the 5 grain rule as long as they stay at or under 280 fps.
You can NOT use a moveable sight in the hunter class.You would have to step back and shoot from the open stake,which would not be advisable as a beginner.
BUT,you can go and have fun with your equipment and just tell them that you are not competing.Just shooting for fun.
You can NOT use a moveable sight in the hunter class.You would have to step back and shoot from the open stake,which would not be advisable as a beginner.
BUT,you can go and have fun with your equipment and just tell them that you are not competing.Just shooting for fun.
02-04-2009, 07:10 PM
#5
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Northeast Tennessee
Posts: 5,673
RE: Help
Missed your calling? Nah. 
It's a blast you'll love it.
Even if you don't want to trick out a Competition rig just yet, you can go to just about any club and shoot a practice round with your setup, just to see how you like it.
It's a blast you'll love it.
Even if you don't want to trick out a Competition rig just yet, you can go to just about any club and shoot a practice round with your setup, just to see how you like it.
02-05-2009, 12:57 PM
#6
Join Date: May 2007
Location:
Posts: 45
RE: Help
niehenke
Believe me your current setup is better than most! Most guys shoot with their hunting setup with field points! It is no biggy, on the equipment, it is much better to shoot what you have than spend thousands and find out you don't like it! Just go shoot a couple of rounds!
I know a BowTech company Archer that makes the rounds with your exact bow setup, it is a 101, with the HHA scope, a vital gaer drop rest! The 101 is turned down to 55# and he still seeing 318 fps. The difference is his arrows are all matched balanaced, spined, and weights are within a grain of each other and weigh in to a couple of grains of the IBO Rules. He won't tell what his forward of center balance is on the arrows but I bet they are all the same also! He is always within 5 points of the total score. So go with what you have maybe get some better arrows that are closer to the IBO wieghts.
I have seen this guy hit a quarter size dot at 87 yards on the first shot to win $250.00 prize. I have shot with him and he is very good at judging the distances in any layout. Oh know one told you that I bet! That is the mind games, targets are at different distances under different circumstances. For example a deer at 33 yards with a tunnel shot when the deer is up to its belly in tall grass with no trees around to judge the distance looks like a 45 yard shot. You will go right over the top every time!
Mike -
Believe me your current setup is better than most! Most guys shoot with their hunting setup with field points! It is no biggy, on the equipment, it is much better to shoot what you have than spend thousands and find out you don't like it! Just go shoot a couple of rounds!
I know a BowTech company Archer that makes the rounds with your exact bow setup, it is a 101, with the HHA scope, a vital gaer drop rest! The 101 is turned down to 55# and he still seeing 318 fps. The difference is his arrows are all matched balanaced, spined, and weights are within a grain of each other and weigh in to a couple of grains of the IBO Rules. He won't tell what his forward of center balance is on the arrows but I bet they are all the same also! He is always within 5 points of the total score. So go with what you have maybe get some better arrows that are closer to the IBO wieghts.
I have seen this guy hit a quarter size dot at 87 yards on the first shot to win $250.00 prize. I have shot with him and he is very good at judging the distances in any layout. Oh know one told you that I bet! That is the mind games, targets are at different distances under different circumstances. For example a deer at 33 yards with a tunnel shot when the deer is up to its belly in tall grass with no trees around to judge the distance looks like a 45 yard shot. You will go right over the top every time!
Mike -
02-05-2009, 03:38 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
RE: Help
ORIGINAL: niehenke
Thank you very much for your help. I would like to geta lens, clarifier, different site, etc. but I don't want to lose a perfect hunting bow. I called the dealer tonight to ask for his opinion on a target bow. He is putting together a list for me. Rather than buying and returning products, it is much easier to ask the experts what works and why. He suggested the sentinel with my long draw 30.5". I was shocked to see that it had the same axel to axel as my 101. Also, it was strange to see the 82 having a 36 axle to axle. I could have swore the 08 82nd was shorter. I looked at the brigadier and it is a 40 axle to axle and has an 8" brace height. Not sure if I like the design but if it is performs, then I am sure my opinion would change. I like the fire finish. I am clueless on the site, lens, clarifier, release, etc. I tried a back tension release and gave up quickly, but I need to get away from the wrist releases. After shooting for an hour, they slide forward and cause me to make a few mistakes like riding over the hump. Does anyone have any suggestions for target bows/equipmentand why?
Thank you very much for your help. I would like to geta lens, clarifier, different site, etc. but I don't want to lose a perfect hunting bow. I called the dealer tonight to ask for his opinion on a target bow. He is putting together a list for me. Rather than buying and returning products, it is much easier to ask the experts what works and why. He suggested the sentinel with my long draw 30.5". I was shocked to see that it had the same axel to axel as my 101. Also, it was strange to see the 82 having a 36 axle to axle. I could have swore the 08 82nd was shorter. I looked at the brigadier and it is a 40 axle to axle and has an 8" brace height. Not sure if I like the design but if it is performs, then I am sure my opinion would change. I like the fire finish. I am clueless on the site, lens, clarifier, release, etc. I tried a back tension release and gave up quickly, but I need to get away from the wrist releases. After shooting for an hour, they slide forward and cause me to make a few mistakes like riding over the hump. Does anyone have any suggestions for target bows/equipmentand why?
Now, I have a Specialty Archery Products peep sight. I have the larger 1/4" model that has the inserts. It allows you to switch from a standard peep, to a verifier (which is used without a lens... most older shooters hunt with them as it allows you to focus clearly on both your target and your pins) and then switch to a clarifyer (which is used with a lens in spots).
Since you have an HHA sight, all you really need is one of those peeps, the tool to insert the lenses in the peep, and if you choose a lens in your HHA. The peep and a single clarifier will run you around $50. Lenses for HHAs cost anywhere from $60-$120 depending on magnification.
Of course, if you want to get a Brig.... I totally understand that too.
02-05-2009, 06:40 PM
#8
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 343
RE: Help
So here is where I am at. My goal is a 300 on a 5 spot, but I can't do it. I got a 299 a week ago, but could not seal the deal. I have been trying for a year now since I bought my 101. I am seeing my scores level out on 3D. Out of 360, my high is 319 with an average of 309. I have a 6x lens but I can't use it because I need to add the clarifier.If I add the clarifier and upgrade on the site or just add the lens, then I start switching back and forth between hunting and target. Seems like a bit of a pain. Getting another bow might be easier. Please do not misunderstand me. I love to shoot and get out at least 2 timesa week, but I just keep pushing myself to get better and manification might help. The other thing is that I am killing my shoulders with this 67#s and shooting as much as I am at one time. For hunting, it is perfect. Shooting 150 arrows at a sitting is too much. I crank it down but then my label on my site changes a bit. Can you tell me if you have been in this position where you feel that you need some equipment advantage? At the 3D course, I am within the top 3 but there is a completely different group than at the other indoor range where 300s are common during the league. I am not in a league there, but maybe that is where I need to join to get some advice. I had asked the owner what class of shooters were in the league and he said that some were 300 with high 50xs. That is amazing to me. I'd love to pick up their bow and see what the differnce would be. Thanks for all of the advice. I have the most respect for all of you and your patience and willingness to help.
02-05-2009, 08:22 PM
#9
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Help
Are you wanting a spot bow or a 3-d bow? Those are different animals with different setups.
Indoor you use high power lenses with clarifiers and slow very forgiving bows at low poundage.
3-d you try for more speed while still maintaing a forgiving bow with lighter faster arrows at more poundage for downrange energy.
Most are using fat arrows in both 3-d and indoor.Indoor shooters use heavy points(200-300 grain) to break down the spine of the fat stiff aluminum arrows.
3-d arrow are usually fat carbon arrows with lighter points in the 10-12% foc rang.
you can use pins or slidebars in either but the top classes in both use slide bar sights.
Indoor you use high power lenses with clarifiers and slow very forgiving bows at low poundage.
3-d you try for more speed while still maintaing a forgiving bow with lighter faster arrows at more poundage for downrange energy.
Most are using fat arrows in both 3-d and indoor.Indoor shooters use heavy points(200-300 grain) to break down the spine of the fat stiff aluminum arrows.
3-d arrow are usually fat carbon arrows with lighter points in the 10-12% foc rang.
you can use pins or slidebars in either but the top classes in both use slide bar sights.
02-06-2009, 03:39 AM
#10
Join Date: May 2007
Location:
Posts: 45
RE: Help
Hi
Tfox is correct that most of the 3D archers are using carbon shaft arrows and they are fat! I assumed you knew that! These fat arrows make up for a fair amount of error! I have seen the difference in the range of 15 to 25 points across a course. Remember in most 3D shoots if the arrow breaks the line it is the next highest score. It is fairly simple a fat shaft arrow just covers more area than the normal shaft arrow so that 8 becomes a 10 because the fat shaft broke the 10 line. You need to check the rules of the course as there is a diameter limitation that was adopted last year to keep the archers from using telephone poles as arrows!!! Hmmm!
Yep that indoor spot shooting is a little different! I amazed me when I watched a shoot that the archers could shoot so many arrows that quickly! I was taken back on the first shoot I saw with the longer bows and the small diameter NANO arrows they were using! Sorry all I could think of was how that setup would be in a Tree Stand!
Ok I guess I am just a hunter at heart!
By the way niehenke congrads, on the 299 out of 300, sounds good to me!
Mike -
Tfox is correct that most of the 3D archers are using carbon shaft arrows and they are fat! I assumed you knew that! These fat arrows make up for a fair amount of error! I have seen the difference in the range of 15 to 25 points across a course. Remember in most 3D shoots if the arrow breaks the line it is the next highest score. It is fairly simple a fat shaft arrow just covers more area than the normal shaft arrow so that 8 becomes a 10 because the fat shaft broke the 10 line. You need to check the rules of the course as there is a diameter limitation that was adopted last year to keep the archers from using telephone poles as arrows!!! Hmmm!
Yep that indoor spot shooting is a little different! I amazed me when I watched a shoot that the archers could shoot so many arrows that quickly! I was taken back on the first shoot I saw with the longer bows and the small diameter NANO arrows they were using! Sorry all I could think of was how that setup would be in a Tree Stand!
Ok I guess I am just a hunter at heart!
By the way niehenke congrads, on the 299 out of 300, sounds good to me!
Mike -