4 Month old Training??????????
 

Do you guys think 4 months is too young to start working on heel and whoa? My Vizsla pup and I are doing well with sit and come... really well as a matter of fact, and I feel this is the next stage of normal progression. I just don't want to rush it. Right now he takes soft correction pretty well. I would characterize him as a little soft though, not introverted but definetly not head strong.

RE: 4 Month old Training??????????
 

I've never trained a "traditional" pointer (just pointing labs), but it really depends on what sequential training program you are using. Step 3 follows step 2 which follows step 1

RE: 4 Month old Training??????????
 

Doc, I'm reading the book "Training Pointing Dogs" by Paul Long. He speaks of "yard traing" which is basic obedience, starting with Here and Sit. The next phase is Whoa and Heel and he uses the age of 12 months as a starting point. I realize I'm anxious. I just can't see practicing "sit" and "here" for the next 8 months.

And just out of curiosity why do you NOT recommend the use of a canine fence??

RE: 4 Month old Training??????????
 

Well I have a few books on pointers and spaniels. My cousin raised field dogs for 17yrs. He had a bunch that were National quality. In his words training for a field dog can never start too soon. Does not always look like training when you have a pheasant wing on a fishing pole. But, its the idea of getting him used to it.

That is what he always said. He would start handling his pups as soon as they were weined.

More on your not. My spaniels were started the day I brought them home. My last springer was probably the best I ever had. She was sitting and coming at 3 months. We actually got her about 2 weeks early.
Its never too soon to teach obedience. Especially since it is learned in repetition. There is no punishment for a pup, though. But there is nothing better than getting them used to it. It makes it a lot easier later!

RE: 4 Month old Training??????????
 

1. I haven't seen the book (those of us with PLs only have one book dedicated to PLs). Most things that a Lab does is based on Obedience, but I've heard (don't know if it's true or not) that a lot of traditional pointer folks don't even teach sit. With PLs, we like to introduce a wing clip pigeon at a young age (to turn on the prey drive switches). Then back to bumpers until the dog is 4 to 5 months old. Then we get into "flyaway" birds. We plant birds that can fly well in the field and take the dog out. When it shows solid point, we will flush and shoot the bird -- if the dog breaks and busts the bird, we let it fly away (and the dog gets no reward of the retrieve).
I would certainly think that 'whoa' (and heel) training should be started long before 12 months of age.


2. I dislike 'underground fences' because lots of dogs will learn how to run like a bat out of **** and bust out -- but then they can't get back in. It doesn't keep other dogs and other creatures out of your yard. There are other reasons, but you get the idea.

RE: 4 Month old Training??????????
 

I concur!!! and I appreciate your response. Like I've said before, this is my first bird dog and I want to try and do everything right or at least minimize my mistakes. My pup was coming and sitting at 3 months and everything so far is going really well. He retrieves and drops the retrieve dummy at my feet. The things he has learned we repeat methodically and I worry that he'll get bored with the tasks I expect from him... so I hope all who view this board are prepared for lots of dumb questions:D

RE: 4 Month old Training??????????
 

I should say thanks.

A lot of people think I am mean, and should let the pup be a pup. Then after a year or so goes by and they cant figure out why they cant even keep there house dog off the furniture or it keeps jumping on people, I just laugh:D

I love the pups I have had with all my heart. I treated each as an individual and trained each that way. Sometimes it got confusing on which needed to work on what. But non-theless they each were very obedient and trained to do what they were supposed to do.
What killed my dad, was I would bring them home and spray them down and let them in the house! He would freak. "You can't let those dogs in the house"! He would always demand. My dogs were flushers and retreivers. They would point every once in a while, which was a treat, but for the most part that is not what I raised them to do!:) They stayed inside with me and slept on the doggy beds by the fire place. Very good house dogs as well.

HOWEVER
My new G/F has a ?(I will try this) Wierehiemer??? Got me, but I think everyone knows what I am trying to spell. Beautiful dog, But a complete task to train anything too! This by far is the hardest dog I have ever worked with. He is almost a year and a half and still will not heal, completely sit (he hovers), or come. Chases deer and tries to eat the birds! She does not want me to put a collar on him, but I truley do not know what to do with this one???

RE: 4 Month old Training??????????
 

I have a 4 month old Elhew English Pointer, I got him as a 8 week old. To date he knows, come, sit, whoa, a very loose heel, and will play fetch all day if you let him. Yes you can start a dog anytime you feel like it. I have done all this just playing fetch. When we go for his runs I use the same commands in the field and he obeys most of the time. So your Vizula should be ok, if you take it slow and gentle. No hitting and if you mad quit and try again later. Even the next day would be fine.

Trying to find a particular book
 

Hi JsmesB67,
I was wondering if Paul Long's book was paperback. I recall reading a thin paperback book on training pointing dogs. The author used a cardboard tube, like the ones found inside a paper towel roll, and taped at the end. He recommended bopping the dog on the head with it. Doesn't hurt the dog but they hated the sound of it. Also, when choosing a puppy, put a little piece of dried pheasant in your shoe. The puppy that response to it is the puppy you want.

Is this the same book?


Also, Doc E is correct. Many don't use sit when trainning and some use "Hold" instead of "Whoa". Not many though.

RE: Trying to find a particular book
 

Yes.. Same book. What did you think of his approach? It's the only book I've read thus far and I find it easy to follow. I haven't implemented the paper towel roll yet though.

I've been considering abandoning the sit command and may still, but he's doing it automatically now... like when he gets a treat or time to put his lead on etc...

RE: Trying to find a particular book
 

I did find it very helpful as I trained my first dog with it. She was very hyper setter. The one thing I like about it was that it only dealt with pointing (If memory serves) and eliminated the waterfowling aspets. With the Vizula, you want to also try another book as Vizulas can be versitile dogs.

Another book I'm into now is Henry P. Davis's book Training Your Own Bird Dog, copyright goes way back 1948. Everything in this book is out of date thus far except it has an excellent chapter on introducing the gun to your dog.

The whoa and heel command from Long's book is very good and that employs the cardboard roll. My setter learn whoa very well, but I've could have been alittle more strict in heel. She healed but often got ahead of me.

I have a goldie now who is not a real hunter. And training her without a leash is not going to happen as goldies have a mind of their own. She doesn't go to far (too fat) and doesn't have a mean bone in her body. I don't try to train her anymore but she has us very well trained.

Thanks for letting me know. I'm gonna order Long's book and keep it on hand.

RE: Trying to find a particular book
 

in my opinion its never to early to start training. puppies are no different than babies there like little sponges. the more you fool with them the faster they learn, now each dog is different they learn at different speeds.so you have to pay attention to what he is telling you, but just go slow and be easy just keep doing it over and over again until he gets it, dogs learn by repetition, so keep at it. i start all my dogs on the whoa command at 3-4 months of age, in my opinion this is the most important of all the commands, i use a modified barrel technique, i feel its easier on the dogs to learn this way. i also expose my dogs to birds early as well, i have a fly pen and put the puppies in and let them chase away, this helps develop desire. there is just so many things to do, but have fun and just enjoy, but to answer the question i think you should definitely start training now.

RE: Trying to find a particular book
 

Just keep it short and fun for pups, and of course, go easy on them enough to let them be pups some. It also depends on how mature the dog is in the first place. Some mature faster than others, and a slower maturing puppy is no indication, in my opinion, of a bad dog. You know, some 16 year old teenagers seem to really have wisdom beyond their age, but then you can't be too rough on the ones that still have a ways to go in the maturity category...they'll get there. maybe people aren't the best comparison, but you get my drift. As for the W______r dog that you asked about, I'd dawn the old shock collar, not as a fix, but as a reinforcement. Only use it for one problem at a time, like come or breaking off deer. Good luck