Help requested selecting a breed for my new hunting partner!
 

Thanks in advance for any ideas that you guys may offer.

I'm in my early 50's, in good physical condition, and plan to do some serious wing shooting here in S. America where I now live. I've been on a couple of dove hunts and the action varied from slow to heart pounding. The cover I've hunted also varied from very open to some pretty thick and nasty stuff which can make finding birds without a dog very difficult.

While I will most likely concentrate on upland birds such as a number of species of doves and pigeons that are available, I will most assuredly encounter quail and ducks from time to time.

To date, I've vacillated between a German Short-haired Pointer and a Labrador Retriever. I think the GSHP would be more versatile though I suspect the Lab may require less overall exercise as an adult. I should add that many years ago I owned and trained an American Water Spaniel. He was a hard hunter, very energetic, but was also hard-headed at times.

I plan to train my new dog myself.

Any input from those of you with experience with these breeds, or any others you may suggest for that matter, is greatly appreciated.

El Gringo

RE: Help requested selecting a breed for my new hunting partner!
 

Can't go wrong with either-but I would go Lab based on the outlying years if you are 50.

RE: Help requested selecting a breed for my new hunting partner!
 

Thanks DS. The thought that I'm not getting any younger has been in the back of my mind as I comtemplate the breed I'd like to purchase, train, hunt with, and spend the next 10 years or so caring for.

Do you have any thoughts as to whether a male or female would be better? If so, why?

El Gringo

RE: Help requested selecting a breed for my new hunting partner!
 

I would advise you to stay away from a lab in this case. Both dogs will work no matter what age you are. But labs, and retrievers in general, have a tendency to hard mouth smaller birds such as your doves and quail. Depending on where you live in S. America, if you hunt many days where the temp breaks 70-75 degrees fahrenheit, the lab won't work as well as a shorter haired breed. Just my 2 cents.

And go female. Even though you have to put up the heat cycle, the fact they aren't as aggressive and more trainable than males will be worth it.

RE: Help requested selecting a breed for my new hunting partner!
 

What are the temperatures like during the majority of your hunting seasons?

RE: Help requested selecting a breed for my new hunting partner!
 

???????????? They DO NOT hardmouth small birds --- IF they are properly trained. :eek:

RE: Help requested selecting a breed for my new hunting partner!
 

Thanks for the responses fellows! You're giving me many things upon which to ruminate.;)

Even my little American Water Spaniel tended to be hard-mouthed so I know what that's all about. I don't recall if I ever broke him of it and therefore would appreciate any tips on the subject.

As for average temperatures, it's cool here tonight in Eastern Venezuela.....which means it's gotten down into the low 70's!!!! Basically, hunting temperatures will run anywhere from the mid 70's to the mid to upper 80's. Having said that, I will often be hunting in the vicinity of water as that's what draws a lot of birds to a given area.

Are there any breeds that would outperform others in these kinds of temperatures?

El Gringo

RE: Help requested selecting a breed for my new hunting partner!
 

Doc,
I personally own a chessie. She is good with everything EXCEPT doves and quail. I have heard nothing but the same from most lab owners because of the warm temps,small size, and loose feathers. Granted when it cools down my dog isn't bad on quail. But I've heard several professional trainers say to not hunt retrievers AT ALL on doves. Hard mouth can be a tough problem to fix especially with an inexperienced trainer. It's a slow process that requires persistance and consistancy at all times with a thorough Force Fetch and Formal Hold program. If its genetic hard mouth, well, good luck. Most upland breeds like the GSP rarely inherit or have hard mouth at all, so for your quail and doves, go for it.

And by saying cool is in the 70's, the lab is out.

I have little against labs, but in this fellows case, the lab is not fit.

RE: Help requested selecting a breed for my new hunting partner!
 

This is really interesting. I'm learning a lot and thanks again everyone for the input.

I'm absolutely still open-minded on which way to go on this subject. I guess my concern, rightly or wrongly, with the GSP is that I have a belief that the dog may need more exercise than I'll be able to give even though I plan to hunt many days at a stretch and during much of the year.

While I love the looks of the breed and the proven versatility, I'm having a hard time imagining a GSP being content to sit for long periods waiting on doves (my primary target) to arrive. I could be all wrong in this instance, and that's why I appreciate the ideas that you guys are providing.

El Gringo

RE: Help requested selecting a breed for my new hunting partner!
 

The GSP will have more energy, but I doubt you would have any problem getting it to sit still. They are used for duck hunting also, which requires just as much, if not more patience, than dove hunting. I thought I would never get my chessie to sit still, but as the dog matures and you show that dog it HAS to sit still you shouldn't have any problems.

RE: Help requested selecting a breed for my new hunting partner!
 

Thanks Duck Killer!

I had forgotten that GSP's also make excellent duck retrievers.

Not having ever hunted over a GSP, or even examined one up close and personal, is their coat that much shorter than a lab's and therefore much better for the kind of temps I'll be hunting in here in Venezuela?

Also, is it your impression that, on average, GSP's tend not to have a 'hard mouth' problem, or is it more a matter of being able to break them of the bad habit more easily?

El Gringo

RE: Help requested selecting a breed for my new hunting partner!
 

The GSP has a really short coat. However the lab isn't known for a having a long coat such as a golden, but its the weight that gives the lab the disadvantage in the upland fields and on warm days.

And as far as hard mouthing small birds, I would say you would have a better chance with a GSP than a lab, granted any dog will hard mouth if the owner doesn't know what he's doing. A word of advice from the get-go, do NOT ever play tug-a-war with your dog, do NOT snatch the dummy,bumper,bird,etc. from your dog quickly and lots of force. This is where you can CREATE hard mouth. Instead say "out" and push the dogs lip against its teeth behind the bird/bumper and the dog should release. After enough of those lessons you shouldn't have any problem.

RE: Help requested selecting a breed for my new hunting partner!
 

Which part of SA are you moving to?

RE: Help requested selecting a breed for my new hunting partner!
 

Thanks Duck Killer! I'm really in appreciation of the repsonses and experiences all you guys have. When I found this forum, I realized quickly it was one I wanted to join.

DuckStampede, I'm already here, and here is North-Eastern Venezuela in a city called Maturin. The city is just south of a chain of mountains that runs east-west along the northern coast of the country. A few hours drive to the south and west brings one into the Gran Savana which is an enormous expanse of grass lands mixed with wooded areas. South of that and one enters Amazon jungle.

The western side of Venezuela is pretty arid, while this region here is somewhat mixed, depending on elevations.

It's a fascinating country and one with lots of shooting opportunities. In a very short time I've already secured permission to hunt on tens of thousands of acres of farmland and cattle ranches to the west of here near the mountains. There's very little hunting pressure on game birds. The deer, however, as are numerous other decent-sized game animals, are hammered at night.[:o]

El Gringo

RE: Help requested selecting a breed for my new hunting partner!
 

El Gringo,

I believe a lab or GSP will serve your interests very well-my preference is for a Lab simply based on the fact that you and I are about the same age-and although I visualize myself hunting 60 days a year-my knees are telling me that as time progresses that probably won't happen like it used to. Therefore I am getting a Lab early in 2005 because my limited expience tells me that when I am 56 in a few years and I can't get out and hunt as much as I would like-my dog will be more companion than hunter-Labs tend to mellow a little better strictly in my opinion. I do believe temps and terrain should be taken into account but in the temp range you are looking at neither dog will suffer since both have the same coat characteristics which is why they can retrieve ducks in cold water. If your dog is taught to hunt and force fetch in warm weather with dove and quail then I have found hard mouth is less of a problem since you train it out of them from the beginning. Again just an opinion on my part.

As far as a post you made in Upland game-I would love to trade you a hunt in Venezuela for a hunt in Nebraska. I put a trip together every other year for my friends and we have a wonderful time.

RE: Help requested selecting a breed for my new hunting partner!
 

Consider that a deal!!!! I'm still learning when and where to hunt these birds but am figuring it out quickly. We can compare notes on schedules, seasons, etc, and formalize some plans.

Thanks!

El Gringo

RE: Help requested selecting a breed for my new hunting partner!
 

Where in Nebraska are you guys planning on hunting? I live here in southeastern Nebraska and we have had a pretty good year so far, and its not even done yet! How much does in generally cost for a trip to Venezuala from the states?

RE: Help requested selecting a breed for my new hunting partner!
 

Duck Killer,

Flights to Venezuela vary depending on time of year, and of course, on how far in advance you buy the tickets.

Most flights originate out of Houston or Miami with a direct flight into Caracas. An additional alternative is to fly into Miami and then take Aeropostal, a Venezuelan National Airline down to Caracas. They sometime offer some excellent fares as compared to the U.S. carriers and because they're flying into Miami, they're required to meet all U.S. safety requirements. This is especially true since the local currency is frozen against the dollar at an artifically low rate. One can exchange dollars here and easily knock 25% off the cost of something that's priced at the 'official' exchange rate.

I just did a quick search using expedia.com and came up with roundtrip ticket prices out of Miami, in late January (30 days out) and came up with a tad over $400...so that should give you something to go on.

When it comes time to putting a hunting together, you guys need only get to Caracas, the rest of the trip will be on me.;)

El Gringo