BillDeLuc

Well Drake, I'll tell you where I am at with my pup and see what your suggestions are. My pup is a 6 mo. old BLM. He has been through basic Ob, and is pretty solid on it. My wife has a work friend that took us to a training day with thier club, and we put pup on live birds, he loved it and did well. I was encouraged by this. Now I'll admit that my training past Ob has been kind of hap-hazard. Pup retrieves anything I throw for him, but not to hand. He just drops it at my feet, and I can't get him to hold anything on command. He is either running with it, or chewing it. I have tried to correct this, but to no avail. He also is very hardmouthed. I am guessing he will need to be force-broken to clear these issues up. He comes and sits on a wistle, though if he knows he is well out of my reach he is slow to get his butt on the ground. I am frustrated because I feel that pup and I both need a regimented system we can stick with, but I just don't know which book, trainer, system, etc. to start with. My primary interest is hunting with pup, both waterfowl and upland, but I want to leave the option open for field trails and hunts test down the road. Any advice or suggestions you have is greatly appreciated.

DrakeDawgs

Bill.....I can honestly say what you described was me 2 years ago! Almost Identical....i bought every book Icould find on training and was all over the place.

1. Join the retriever club and get with a training group! The experience and advice you will get is invaluable. Down the road..you will need help/advice on Force Fetching Collar conditioning your dog.

2. Buy Yourself Jim and Phyllis Dobbs Tri-Troncis Retriever Training Book! http://www.dobbsdogs.com Give your dog a refresher in OB....100% pretty solid is good but can be better. The book it is well layed out and has alot of illustrations. They also have 2 good video tapes for hold and fetch (FF). I preferrd the ear pinch rather than the toe method. Most importantly...follow it to the T!!!!!! Don't try to skip ahead...because you will probally find yourself having a heck of a time trying to correct it in the future.
Remember sit means sit....and nothing else...it is sit till I tell you to move. Always keep your dog a positon where he can be corrected. If you correct him 1/2 the time then your OB is for the most part useless.

You will need to FF you dog to solve the hardmouth problem.....Start with the hold command....Do not use bumpers or birds at this stage.....i use wooden dowels....pvc pipe....A wire hair brush ...whatever it may take. The wire brush works well for dogs that have a hard bite. Have him sit (left side)....on a short lead...open his mouth with your left hand using two fingers.....insert the wire brush with your right hand and give the hold command.....keep repeating this......then you command drop....if he does not release..takethe same 2 fingers and pry it out commanding drop.....keep up the reps and he will catch on....

That should be plenty to get you started! Remeber stick with the training program and keep training sessions short......If you see your dog losing interest give him a command that he knows and give him alot of priase when hey obeys it.

Good Luck and Good Training!

LKing

Drake and Doc are right! Don't get me wrong, I used Wolter's in training my very first lab, and his methods work well if what your shooting for is strictly a hunting companion that will get the job done, but if you are looking any further into complex retrieving and even the doggy tests and games, go buy Evan Graham's Smartworks series (2 volumes) I am a third of the way through Smartworks 1 and notice a big difference in these 2 methods.

short-range

From what I've read so far here today, the only thing you all have said that is outdated is that Wolters didn't use an e-collar. I've been through about 6 books since I started looking to get a pup, and Wolters was the first. Since then the rest of the books have said the same exact things as Water Dog. Many (if not all) of them using some of the same exact sentences. Many of the other books went on to use e-collar methods in the last couple of chapters, but most didn't introduce "much" different stuff before that. The only real differences I saw were mostly little changes to fit an individuals personality.

LKing

Short range, I'm not sure which 6 books you've looked at, but if the only difference you've noticed in the above books mentioned and water dog is the use of an e-collar, you've not read closely. Take a look at the Smartworks series and then try and tell me the only difference is the e-collar.

DrakeDawgs

Short Range ...what 6 books have you read?

DrakeDawgs

Bill......read this article. It will get you started on that hold problem.

http://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/ret...s/rjpart1.html

Good Luck and Good Training

BillDeLuc

Thanks for all the good advice. I am book shopping online right now. Drake, it made me feel better to know that someone else has been in the same boat as I am right now.

Doc E

Don't get me wrong, I used Water Dog as my guide for two Labs in the past. But it's seriously lacking in quite a few areas. NOT JUST in the use of an ecollar, but in finishing out FF (Wolters only gets as far as kind of a formal HOLD (or maybe kind of an "informal HOLD"). He doesn't get into swim-by, water cheating, complex (or even semi-complex) blinds and the list goes on and on.

I think the most complete training books available today are (NOT in any specific order) are the Smartwork books, The 10 Minute Retriever and the Lardy Articles.

DrakeDawgs

Doc.....Casey's website is a riot. Are you still running NAHRA? I see you post on there website once in a while. I think Jeff is getting things on the right track.....I didn't see any pics of DFTs on Caseys site....lol.