Anyone use gundogs for fur hunting
 

I saw that a lot of the German pointers were breed for brids and fur both was wondering if anyone still uses then for furs if so did you trained them like you would a hound

Hello kyboy. Good to see you again.

Hey man how goes it

People say Pointers, but pure pointers, bird only, are rare here. I prefer to use the term gun dogs. German short hair, German Wire Hair, Weimaraner (short and long hair) and others are all around hunting dogs, point, retrieve, flush and track. IMO a whole lot easier to train than hounds (sight hounds or scent hounds). Many of the hounds get on a scent or chase and all you can do is try to keep up. Pointers or gun dogs work closer with their handlers and are less prone to get out of control.

When an animal tries to hide they often point, then creep and flush. Unless they are in a scent heavy area, then they work that spot and flush.

I've used mine for Birds, Ducks, Hare, Rabbit, Hogs, Fox and more. They may not be as good as some of the specialists, but do most things well.

Here when a hunter wants a dog to work scent (or a blood trail) they put him on a long leash called a long line. It doesn't take the dog long to figure out what you want, training to a long line is easier than free training. Like walking a dog on a leash, the dog gets feedback from the long line. The down side is the long line tends to get tangled in brush or what not, it takes some technique.

Cool man I was trying to say when you have a pup and no older dogs to work it with do you use training luyers or the skins of the animals you want them to go after to give them a idea of what they are supposed to be looking for I know when I was growing up if we had a coon or rabbit pup all we had to do was make sure it knew it name and to come when we called it I have seen the long line used on TV for founding shot game but do they use it for finding fox rabbits and hogs before the shot is so that would be very interesting to know how that would go about being done

Some of it they are born with, some dogs, even dogs of the same breed, have stronger drives for some game than others, different talents. Hey I'm flexible, if the dog wants to hunt Hare, I'll hunt Hare.

I've used a long leash hunting Boars in the late morning. Depends on the time of year, when the squeakers are young the Sows run the Boars off. People say Boars will eat squeakers, older Sows are far from stupid. Well anyway, the Boar often trail behind the sounder and may bed down well short of the favorite bedding area. I sometimes trail a sounder late morning after it starts to heat up a bit and have come across Boar bedding in some brush. Right where the brush ends and the grass begins, often in ditches or low spots.

My dogs grew up chewing on Hog ears. Born hating Fox, took me awhile to discourage my Weimaranar from tearing Fox to pieces. The gun dogs are usually natural pointers. Had one that was a natural retriever, another was a really good tracker. Funny about that one that was an iffy retriever, he once dove under water going after a wounded Goose and stayed down there so long I thought he had drown, came back with the Goose. I think his retrieving flaws were mine and not his.

You can see it in this picture, holding that Fox and not tearing it to bits did not make the dog happy.



I usually take the pups where the game is I want to hunt, if they have any prey drive at all they will get excited and chase. True hunters don't take a whole lot of encouragement. A whole lot easier if you can take the pup out with an older dog. But taking them out with an older dog has it's disadvantages, it may teach the young one it's bad habits.

My daughters German Shorthair mix was a born bird dog, but would take out after Hogs. A good retriever. Like I said I tend to go with the flow, I hunt what they hunt. He was also very very fast. I really wanted to work him as a Lurcher or Hound but was always afraid I might ruin him.

Your job is to figure out a way to communicate to the dog what you want and/or adapt to it's quirks. Sometimes you get paired up with that magic dog and it just clicks, you can teach then anything.

Ok I think I understand did your dog open on the boare or did you pick it up from body language did you ever use the long line when you were hunting fox or did you let them run free it would be a cool way if they could be hunted with one would take care of the biggest problem with hounds going on to someone's land we don't have permission for

Most of the time it was wasted time tracking Boar, their scent is so overpowering to a dog they don't often know how close they are. I've gotten to within ten feet of a few sleeping hogs. The trouble is they go from a sound asleep to 35 MPH in an instant, most times through the brush and not out into the open.

I usually flush Fox, many have the habit of hiding and they are good at it. The ones that want to flee usually do it way before you get close enough for a shot, quarter of a mile. It is usually shotgun work.

You have to appreciate a dogs nose, I once wounded a Fox, let the dog loose to track it. Dog picked up the blood trail and went nuts, following at a full run. I later went back and looked at the trail, a very tiny spot of blood every fifteen feet or so. I really should have kept him on the long line.

A dog gets into an area with game and it is like sniffing out one turd in a cesspool. A good dog can do it, but don't expect miracles.

I was lucky, my last lease was huge, I could hunt in the middle with little fear of my dog bothering anybody. It was actually four leases we pooled and jointly hunted.

Sending Hounds after Hogs can be iffy for numerous reasons. One is the dogs get a little nuts and Hogs tend to head for thick cover. Hogs are basically Tanks. A real possibility your dog could loose an eye. My daughters German Short hair mix had a four inch stick removed form his chest.

IMO best to keep your dog under control.

Ok so when they were on a fox track did they open up on one or just flush it when you were going out to hunt fox how far would you let them work seems like I read somewhere that people would use a whistle to call the dog back.if it got to far away and I was wondering two do you see many Weimaraners used over there for all around work seems like every time you here about them over here it is said to be one of the breads that the show crowd destroyed for hunting

Not going to do you much good if your dog and the Fox are out of shotgun range. We often hunted with multiple hunters and multiple dogs. Fox often end up going to ground (into a Den or even a drainage pipe) if they are being chased, they are rarely farther than 500 yards from a den. They are also sneaky and really good at hiding.

Or I find a den and send an earth dog down to flush the Fox out. One way to find a den is to trail (scent dog) a Fox back to it. Contrary to popular belief, Fox use Dens year round, for rearing young and for warmth in the cold months.

A favorite place for Fox is in the large round Hay Bails the farmers leave out. Fox scat and urine around, Dogs pick up on the location easy. Send a Terrier in to flush the Fox. The farmers are really happy to get the Fox out of there, Cattle won't eat Fox urine soaked silage.

I actually got the majority of my Fox by having the Dog find a well used path or Den and setting up an ambush and leaving the dog in the truck.

Around here by far the most popular hunting dog is the German wire hair, second is the short hair, third (lately) has been long hair Pointer or long hair Weimaraner. You also see a few Stichelhaar, kind of a local breed, but an old breed.

Well that's a interesting idea using a dog to tail them back to the den do you look for a track or something​ showing were a fox has passed or just let them in a good area let them found a track and see if they lead to a den also I have been thinking would you think a bait station would be a good place to cut a track and work it back also would you think they would have a good chance of flushing a coyote like you do a fox

Both, let them work a good area and/or look for tracks after a rain. Fox don't really like getting wet the will avoid the tall grass if they can when it's wet, farm tracks,lumber trails, established game trail are preferred. The also hunt and walk fence lines especially in pastures.

Same thing with Yotes but in a bigger way. Spot a likely area, look for tracks. Like I mentioned near water is a good spot some places. Or look in an area with a lot of Rodents, Jack Rabbits or whatever, where their is food there is Yotes. I found the early evening is the best time to try and dog them. Where I hunted them a decent shot was hard to come by, either tall grass or thick brush. One of my favorite places was right after some farmer cut hay, A lot of Rodents get chopped up, it opens the ground up and makes the surviving mice easier to catch. Use the terrain and the wind, pop up over a ridge. The dogs would often lead me to a Yote scat pile, territorial maker. Where I hunted water was the best spot, especially in the hot months, they show up to drink in the early evening, dusk.

Antedote: was out with my dogs and came across a family out for a nature walk, bitch Yote with her teats hanging was trotting away from water, had just finished drinking. The mother of the family thought it would be a good idea to feed that mother Yote, Mama actually came up and took the food right out of her hand along with pieces of her fingers. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

Yotes are often brazen and will keep a distance but won't panic and run off like most Fox will.

Cool giving me some spots to watch for the only thing with hunting over here in the evening is we are only allowed to hunt up to 30 minets after sunset so just wondering have you ever had any luck with going really early in the morning we can be out 30 minets before sunrise have you ever tried cutting their tracks off of a bait sight I was wondering because my cousin husband had good luck shooting them off of bait using game calls but he has a lot of private land were he is the only one to hunt on it

I was trying to bring the European Rabbits back and establish a colony, they had all but disappeared from our lease. I planted cover, piled up rocks to make the Fox digging them out harder. I put a lot of effort into the project.

Noticed the Fox where interested in a steaming horse manure pile in the middle of winter. I dug a hole in the manure and buried a hundred pounds of chicken bones ( Colonal Sanders dumpster). The heat from the manure kept the scent cone active even on the coldest mornings. I picked off a bunch of Fox with their tails in the air digging. Baiting is frowned upon here, but due to the extreme overpopulation the rules were relaxed, as was hunting Fox at night. One of those blind eye type things, same for hunting Hogs at night. I thinned out the Fox, the Rabbits re-populated.

On another lease I dug some holes with a post hole digger in an out of the way spot, I shot Fox with their tails in the air trying to get to the offal in the bottom of the hole. The Fox on this lease were killing off most of the Hare. Most often I'd be sitting for Deer or hogs and would shoot a Fox at the end of the hunt. I actually shot a bob tailed Fox there, guess it was born without a tail. I glassed it multiple times trying to figure out what it was.



Remember what I said about cut hay fields, the Yotes and/or Fox will show up.

If I find multiple tracks in the same road or trail I set up an ambush early morning. Chances are if there are multiple tracks they are either leaving or returning to a den, a reliable food source or a favored bedding area. Early morning is a good time to hunt roads, like I mentioned they will tend to avoid tall grass when it is wet, not always but often. They also hunt the weeds on side of farm roads or ditches, a lot of wild seed the mice eat.

Hunting is mostly about using your noggin.

Ambush is my favored hunting technique, I get a feeling of satisfaction matching wits with predators.

I called some back in California, never tried it here. I had some success with a Hawk calling it's mate and then a wounded Rabbit call. Yotes thought dinner is served. They'd usually come in fast and stupid.

Cool I will have to keep my eyes open for some of them would be cool to have one help find were they were bedding down

Mine is trained for waterfowl and I am starting to work on tracking slowly. I have been a bit busy with other tasks around the house, but the dog loves ground hog hunting also and sniffs out all the active holes so we can setup on them later on. A couple hole on the ridge near the house she loves to shove her head down in them like she thinks she can crawl down and get them.

Working on the trailing, but the dog is so hyper and I would like to slow her down for that. Waterfowl hunting fast is good, but in tracking slow is better. I have a bumper with deer rawhide with the hair on sewed around it and use that to drag and hide for her to trail and find. She kind of grid searches on her own until she is down wind and then runs up on it. I can train them for waterfowl, but this tracking is giving me a fit with this hyper Labrador. :D

Huh that's cool don't hear about Labrador tracking was the ground hogs something she started on her own or did you start her would be interesting to have a dog make dens

I started this, I'd kill ground hogs and make my dogs carry them through our yard and into the neighbors hay field to drop them for the vultures. Her first live meat retrieves were with the first ground hogs of the year. She is taught on the search command for finding downed birds, so its not a stretch. She is highly interested in any game animals. I just have to watch how its done in the heat as she overheats fast. She flat out loves doves, but I have to watch the September days I do it and take her.

I started with the last one, which was tamer, as I hunted on the neighbors and the wife would come over with the garden tractor and drag the dead deer back home. I watched my previous lab back trail toward the neighbors field. Then used him to trail ground hogs shot that got back to their holes. It's nice to know how to track a wounded deer, but much easier to put the dog on it that can find it in no time flat.

That is cool we don't have that many groundhogs since the coyotes get in here in good numbers is groundhogs and deer recovery the only game you use her on besides brids was carrying groundhogs all it take to get her going after them

Yup, just carrying them. I think they are hunting dogs and we just assume they are Bird dogs only. She wants to hunt and knows birds becuase that is what we train them to do, but they can do anythign you can teach them and they just want to HUNT! The dog gets crazy excited when the neighbor shoots anything and wants to run and help. :wink: She knows someone is hunting and doing it without her.

She goes nuts for ground hogs as after carrying them she know they are a prey animal for her. I attach a pic of her a s a pup doing retrieves with one. I would hold it by the back legs and spin and throw it as far as I could and then send her on it.

She knows deer too and would chase them if allowed, but she is not allowed. She sits and watches them and goes and sniffs after they leave. She is trained on tracking and finding deer rawhides. Also, being a bird dog she can roust up some Turkeys just by tripping over trails. We've been looking for deer and she'll bust a hen turkey of of some brush and then look as us as "Why didn't you shoot it?" :hit:

That is all I have done, but You could train them for any animal. My uncle had a black lab that would run rabbits as he let her out when he let the beagle run. She would waterfowl and then learned to brush bust and trail rabbits too just from watching the beagles work.

That amazing one of the ideas I had after reading about Indian tribes using dogs to locate beave dens they made it sound a lot like how the cops use dogs to find drugs and since labs are one of the ones cops use the most would you think the training the cops use would work for finding beave using beave glands

Most beaver dens are obvious, that big pile of sticks and logs in the water can be seen for a long way and the dams are obvious as well. While there are bank beaver that den in holes along the bank it is easy to find them as well. Why would you want a dog to hunt for them. I don't know of any state where you can take eaver with a gun, just traps. There may be a few but I never heard of them.

Well a lot of times the Dems are under water with just a air hole showing a guy I met a another form that did ADC work said he loved using his dog said it would found a lot of dens before he did and the best part was if his dog hit on one it was a den that had Beaver in it

Hello kyboy. Good to see you again.

I have Huskies, as for me, too, is not a bad breed for hunting to raise it for hunting from childhood

I have two dogs with whom I hunt pine marten