Running Deer
 

Sorry if this is old news.

I know a lot about dogs, but essentially nothing about hunting, so excuse my ignorance in that department.

I had a video up of my dog chasing a deer while out on a hike. Somebody commented saying I shouldn't be "running my dog on deer" like that, and that they would shoot my dog if they were there. Which first off, don't shoot anybody's dog. It's not the dog's fault, it's the person. Don't kill the dog for being a dog. That's just heartless.

I realized they were talking about the hunting type. I don't run deer with my dog. I go on hikes and we happen to run into deer which he chases, but once they leap out of site in a matter of seconds, he stops and comes back to me. No problem.

Anyhoo, I started looking more into the running of dogs on deer and found it was a bit controversial. What I just could not understand was why.

What is so wrong with using a dog to flush deer as opposed to the birds or rabbits or coons so widely accepted? Put aside the dogs ruining the hunt for nearby hunters. I'm more interested in why people don't like it for some other reason. Why do they deem it wrong or unethical?

I don't have an answer for your question, sorry. Some hunters are just against certain things. For instance, some bow hunters don't like rifle hunters. How i feel is that if it is legal, go for it and enjoy it! In the states where it is legal, I'd be all for trying it out. It'd be something different and interesting. Around my area, we have a lot of stray dogs, and they kill alot of game. If I knew dogs were killing or chasing game in the area, I would do something about it. But, that is totally different than shooting someones dog. If I had a problem with someones pet, I'd go to them about it.
All that being said, I'd consider not letting your dog run deer anymore. If someone in the area has warned you, well you've been warned then. For your dogs sake, break that habbit.
-Jake

In my opinion it might be that the dog is related to the wolf -

I for one will not allow my dogs to run deer and do use an e-collar to help teach that.
JW

Thanks for the replies. I was not warned by any hunter. Someone just commented on a video of mine.

My dog only chases deer that we happen to run into while hiking on private property that I am allowed to be on. I don't go out looking for deer or anything.

Unfortunately, I've seen more and more deerstands being put up on the areas I hike in. I have no idea if they're allowed to be there or not, but I just stop going to those areas this time of year. I'd rather not risk it.

I am curious as to why being an ancestor of a wolf has anything to do with it. Dogs aren't wolves. They can't hunt like wolves. They don't act like wolves. There's thousands of years of evolution between a dog and a wolf.

Today's dogs will pack when left unatended. It is in their nature and they will run and chase deer - again the old prey drive relationship. One thing you can do is use a bell on your dog - helps you hear where the dog is at.
But I must admit - you see deer stands - not all hunters there have the same standards as many of us and might just take a shot at your dog. Do be careful.

JW

While some states I have heard allow hunting deer with dogs. This state up here does not. A lot of deer used to get killed by dogs running deer. Mostly during the winter months when the snow is deep. But that is not always the case in part because during those cold months deer that have been run along time normally ends up dieing. The cold air and all wieghs to heavey on them even if the dog does not actually catch up to the deer.

With tha being said a lot of folks would just a soon shoot the dog on site if they even thought it was running deer. Here it is illegal to shoot anyones dog period. It is also illegal to allow your dog to run deer. The video you talk about would end up giving you a big fine for allowing your dog to do that. If it was ever seen by a game warden. Dogs hunting birds, coons, rabbitts, bobcats, coyotes, and even bear are allowed to hunt just not any deer or any other animal that is not legal game. Whether for the kill or not. They call it harrassment of game and none game animals. I hunt for grouse with mine and enjoy it and they have a 2 inch day glow collar equiped with a bell. I want to be responcible for my dogs and knowing where they are is important to me. I also keep an e-collar on mine as well to make sure they are hunting only what I want them to...

A lot of it depends on the state. Some of the southern states (where the woods are very thick) - allow using dogs to hunt deer - but most of the northern states do not.
I do know, from personal experience, that when you let dogs just run loose in the woods they will get together with other dogs and form packs and they get into all sorts of mischief - I have seen a pack of 5 or 6 dogs - (now these are peoples pets that are running wild - Collies - Labradors - Beagles - Spaniels - and larger hounds of all kinds) run into my cousins barnyard and chase his cows and sheep all over the place. They had killed and crippled several of his sheep just a few days before I saw them, and he and I went out and shot 4 of them before the rest got away.
In northern Michigan - when I was a kid, I worked in the woods cutting pulpwood for a while, and we always had our rifles handy to shoot dogs running deer. This was back in the late 1950's and it was legal to shoot them back then, but it is not legal to do it there now. Now, you have to report the dogs to the Game Warden and he takes care of it.

It is old but for me it is new :)

This may explain a bit:

Hunting in upstate NY with my brother, mixed hardwoods between tracts of apple orchards. Dogs barking, getting closer. A doe breaks out from a brushline at full lope. Dogs about 50 yards in full pursuit. Glimpses of the doe and pack for the next 5 minutes, more or less. Then no more barking. Brother finds the doe crumpled over 100 yards from the orchard boundary near a trail road. No bullet wounds, no bleeding, dogs gone.

Curious, he opened the doe and found the heart with a tear in the side. Surgeons would call this myocardial infarction. Those dogs ran that doe to her death for sport. Then went home for a warm night with the fam.

This is why I will shoot dogs running deer in my neck of the woods.

People says it messes up the hunt but I think it might be a cool change to run deer with dogs.

I hate to stir up a pot but even as a newer member to this site I have to step in and say there is absolutely nothing unsporting 9 out of 10 times about a deer ran by dogs. Most of the time the deer whips the dogs, unless you got them long legged walkers throwing out every block with new fresh pack of them. That is where I draw the line, I truely think it is more sporting of a doghunter to use slower hounds. I call these cold nose dogs that trail deer instead of having to be on top of a deer to jump them. Some of my favorite deer dogs were redbones, black and tan's, blueticks, and my beagles. The deer could flat out run them and sit and laugh for awhile and run circles around these dogs. I had to really think hard where to be when that deer came out but guess what? The deer would be just walking sometimes or a slow trot/hop and give me an ethical shot, I had plenty of time to take a good shot. I know there are a bunch of folks that run deer with dogs that are outlaws and will cut ever corner so that the dogs do the work of harvest but there are some like me(retired dog hunter) that had a soft spot for fair hunt ethics. As mentioned earlier I am strickly a still hunter now but I will never forget the times I spent many a cold morning loading up those stinking short legged dogs of my father's and spending time with numerious groups of family and good men. Dogs are my passion and still have some of the decendents of those same hounds I ran in my youth around me closeby. It was heritage and has slowly decended not to be forgotten by me. (pre- 16 years of my life, age 12 to 28,being one). Smokepole

I Deer hunt in county that running Deer with deer dogs is illegal. But the county that borders me it is legal to Deer hunt using dogs. The problem is these guys turn their dogs out early in the morning and at night on my county side and chase out all of the Deer back to them. I have the dogs on my trail camera but can't catch the hunters turning them out.I called the game warden and he told me there was nothing he could do unless I catch the hunters in the act.I have asked around to who's turning the dogs out but no one will talk. Does anyone have any helpful suggestions?

Its outlawed in some places as it places an larger unfair advantage to the hunter. The keep the population in check by the % of deer are caught every year, by using dogs it ups the success rate. That results in the decline of the population and well less tags they can sell which also = less money.

Though the dogs may have "ran her to death" this was probably more of weeding out the week. Deer can run pretty fast, faster than a dog and probably longer distances than dogs. The Doe being chased by any other predator woudlve had the same outcome. It wasnt the dogs fault as much as it was the Doe's heart fault. Probably not the best reason to justify shooting dogs.

Shooting a dog that's chasing a deer is a chicken-s00t cowardly act.

If it was the last deer on earth, sure, but dogs rarely, if ever, actually catch a deer. There's never a reason to shoot a stray dog that may be someone's pet that escaped accidentally.

People who shoot dogs for fun have serious issues.

I don't think most people can find an ethical issue with it, unless they have an ethical issue with a pointer finding quail or a beagle running a rabbit.

Perhaps they use ethics as a way to disguise their selfishness--deer doggers are shooting "their" deer. Either that or they are simply too lazy to actually think the argument through.

As you said, the bigger issue has to do with the guys who use dogs and from my observation, the way many of them treat their dogs. Very divisive issue where I live.

Regardless of whether someone will shoot the dog or not, a responsible owner should not be letting a dog run deer or other wildlife, if you can't control your dog verbally, it should be on a leash (outside the context of a legal hunt).