Tiereta

Your asking the guy to build a table to do force fetch on, for someone who has new dogs through his kennel all the time it's one thing but for a novice it's alot to ask. When I mentioned controling his head it was not to force the dogs head to the bumper, it's keep him from taking a nip at you when you apply pressure.

JW

I did use a table but do everything onthe ground now.

To stop that potential nip to your right hand while applying the force to the ear - your right hand should be on the left ear and the left ear flap is placed over the collar on the left side of the dog. It does a few things
1.You don't have to place a huge amount of pressure as you have the hard surface of the collar to push your thumb nail into.

2. If the dog lunges at the pressure it is away from you as the dog turns away from you towards the hand applying pressure. AND That is why I always wear a leather glove on my right hand, which is the hand that introdcues the 2 fingers into the mouth, then all bumpers or birds when you get that far.

3. There is a leash on the dog to which I just step on to help with further control.

The other reason i quit the table is to stop the transfer to ground. I am already there.



JW

4evrhtn

I have a work bench in my garage that I use. I have also used a card table as well as a cinderblock wall on my back porch. Just about everyone I know has a table or something that can be used without the need to build a table for this purpose solely. As far as the biting issue, never had a dog bite me using the toe pinch but then again the method I choose doesn't require me to inflict pain on my dogs using my hands directly in contact with my dog. He feels the pinch on his toes but doesn't relate that pain as being inflicted by me rather the pain is associated with not doing what I want him to do.

Depending on the breed- GSP's for instance can be ruined by overbearing owners who unknowingly break their dog's spirit by the use of harsh punishment techniques when positive reinforcement is what should have been done in the first place. Other breeds are more stubborn and less likely to learn as fast as the shorthair and more effort must be given in order to achieve the desired result.

vadeerkiller

I had the same problem with my Chessie and I am also a novice. I took advice from you guys here and used the ear pinch. In a week problem solved. Thanks.

JW

I also agree and I got rid of my bench years ago and do everything on the ground.
From Force Breaking - to teaching Whoa - the whole ten yards. I even went without a e-collar on this latest dog as her temperment dictated I not use it.

My latest GWP just received a NAVHDA Utility Prize II. All RTVs to hand with tail up - ears up and happy as all get out to while bringing it back to me and to hand after she sat in front of me.
Seeing a dog that is happy to do the dead bird retrieveing task means I have successfully completed her FF.



JW

countertop

Thats your problem. As the others said, check out force fetching.
And the Wolters book. You might want to send him to a trainer too if you have the $$$

WildlifeBiologist402

Force break to retreve on the bench,with you in control of the dog,telling him to fetch and as you tell that dog to fetch that dummie you are using the toe pinch method on the table,you tell that dog to fetch and as you say that you pull the toe pinch listen to him/her yip until they go for that dummie and get it in there mouth and you let off the toe pinch.!!if you have a dog that is very hardheaded,the ear pinch will not work!!

birddog3412

I started force breaking a dog about a week ago. I decided not to use a bench this time, but I still am using a toe hitch. The only difference I am seeing is it is going to save time because I will not have to make the transition to the ground.

Downriveroutdoors

My new here and have been reading more than posting, my name is Scott Huschle and you all have a great site. I have been training and running dog trials for 30 years in AKC & UKC. Everyone has given some great tips to this guys problem. I myself when force breaking a dog like a table and before the ear pinch or toe pinch I start with a good glove on my hand and hold on to the bottom jaw. The dog will fight this for a few sessions but then realize you are in control and then just relax every time you grab the lower jaw. This makes for an easy transition to the next step of the ear or toe pinch.
I sell a real good video for the do it yourself'r, it done by one of the best pro trainers and 2 time SRS winner Chris Aikin. Alot of my training is done the same as him and if anyone is interested in one PM me and I can send you one. cost is $20.
Once again you all have a great site here and looking forward to talking with you all .

kill_it_n_grill_it

Just giving you guys all an update. I decided before I started the force fetch with my pup, that I would keep working on doing water retrieves and just good obedience. Started back up early last week on the land retrieves and it is like I have a totally different dog. He loves doing the land retrieves now. Something must have finally clicked with him. 60-70% of the time he has been placing the bumper in my hand when he brings it back. This is very satisfying to me compared to not bringing it back at all. I am going to guess some of his issues had something to do with his age. He is 11 months old now. I am going to continue to work with him every day and hopefully things will keep getting even better than they already have lately. Thanks again to everybody!