Lanse couche couche

Some food for thought:

1.Here is the recent headline from a Virginia newspaper: "Treatment of Dogs: Animal Rights Activists and Hunters Are At Odds Over What Had Been a Way of Life for Some Dogs."

This article includes discussion of how animal rights activists try to make unsubstantiated charges of cruelty to deer hounds. Some have also stolen hounds to prevent them from being used for hunting. Safe to assume that these activists are opposed to deer hunting as well. The article also points out that much of the recent opposition to deer hound hunting comes from urban professionals who are moving out into rural areas. Keep in mind that urban professionals often translates into liberals who oppose hunting. Are these the types of people that you want calling the shots in terms of shaping the destiny of local hunting?

2.Non-Hunting Focus Group Summary December 18-2007. This was a meeting where non-hunters could comment on the current deer hound controversy.

Consider the following quote from the summary: "Three [participants] identified themselves as representatives of two different animal rights organizations." Now keep in mind that some folks arguing with me are trying to treat this debate like something that "outsiders" should leave alone so that it can be settled by local hunters. Wrong!! National and local animal rights groups are up to their ears in this issue, and any sort of victory they achieve will add fuel to the fire for their future efforts in Virginia and elsewhere.

That "reform" Kool Aid may taste real good right now. But when they have "reformed" and "regulated" deer hound hunting out of existence and start going after other types of dog hunting you will be singing a different tune. And for some of the still hunters who really want to see all of the dogs out of woods permanently, it is gonna be pretty doggone lonely in the future when you have to face off against your former allies the anti-hunters and realize that there are no other hunters left to back you up.

Vabowman

Lanse, for the last time, Im not even asking for reform, Im asking to obey the laws in place. Stop running dogs in the off season. Hell I would even fight for a time frame for them to run dogs. How about Jan-March? That way Turkey hunters and everyone won't be affected. Sounds good to me.

Lanse couche couche

If that is your position Vabowman, then i don't understnd why you and I have a problem. If people would put their energy into enforcing existing laws instead of getting caught up in movements that put them in bed with animal rights activists, then there probably wouldn't even be an issue to discuss here. But, to use a medical analogy, there are some people with differing agendas whose idea of treating a scratch on the arm is to cut the whole damn arm off.

Dunno about establishing time frames since it is obvious that some folks aren't gonna be satisfied no matter what. You will likely have some folks whining that the deer hounds are now ruining their groundhog hunting []

Vabowman

Please understand that I love dog hunting. It's a tradition here and I don't want it to go away, that is why Im asking for dog owners to compromise, it will go away if something doesn't change.

Lanse couche couche

Keep in mind that compromise is supposed to be a two way deal. But its kind of hard to take compromise seriously when you know that some of the folks you are supposed to be compromising with aren't working with your best interest in mind. Kind of like gun laws, it hard to compromise with the anti-gunners when you know that if you give them an inch, they will take a mile. And, as the stuff that I posted above indicates, this issue goes far beyind a bunch of local boys trying to work out some differences. If folks don't watch their step, it won't just be hound hunting that goes away in the long run.

Vabowman

Well Lanse hound hunting for deer was outlawed moons ago in the western part of Va, and hunting thrives there. In fact, those counties in the Mts lead the state every year in total harvest. I really don't see hunting going away from here. There are far too many deer in this state and that is the only control we have of the herds. In the eastern part of the state we need dogs and big clubs to keep the pop in check, I will fight to keep this style of hunting alive. On the other hand, if we want it to stay around we must control what is happening. Off season running and retrieving can be fixed by the dog owners. We don't needs more laws or reform, we just need people to take responsibilty for their actions. Tell me where Im wrong...

Lanse couche couche

I guess you would have to check into who was involved in the hound hunting ban many moons ago in the western part. Was it a consensus reached by hunters with the best interest of hunting in mind, or was it something that was dictated, at least in part, by antis with a broader agenda? Did the banning provide fuel for the fire in terms of some folks going after hound hunting in other parts of the state, or even doing stuff like taking shots at bowhunting, which PETA has tried to do on at least one occasion in Virginia?

It is clear that in the current situation, the antis are playing a significant role. Do you think that they are gonna be happy with hunters simply taking more responsibility for their actions and enforcing current laws, or, do you think that they will eventually push for much more in terms of legislation. You will probably have a hard time convincing them that dogs and big clubs are needed to keep the deer population in check, because they don't care as long as hunting is brought to an end.

Anyway, I'm done for this for a while. Gonna be checking out some of the animals rights sites to see what they are up to in this regard. Also, gonna take a look at some of the politicians involved in this, since it sounds like some of them may not be big fans of hunting in general. I yield the floor, for now [8D]

Vabowman

I wish you could come down here and see for yourself Lanse, but it will probably not happen in the near future. As far as the western part of Va, the dog ban certainly didn't hurt the hunting, in fact the hunting there is much better. I hunt there every year during bow season and I see 3X the deer there as I do here and there are just as many if not more deer here, they just get messed with more often. Im done with this for now too, nothing got accomplished anyway. I was misunderstood greatly and this turned into a dog banning issue and not the real issue at hand.

vabowhntr

From the perspective of alandowner in southern Va, I am increasingly disgusted with the activity I have seen by hound hunters. I used to enjoy the sound of the hounds (small beagles) running deer. I still enjoy it, but can't stand those that are now abusing the rights of landowners in the area. I have justover 400 acres, bordered on two sides (east/west)by roads, and the north/south by other substantial landowners, neither of which allow hound hunting. Still, every month of the year I observe dogs running deer around my house (every seen a newborn fawn being chased/caught by dogs), which is in the middle of my property. I have checked the collars (when present) ofseveral of these dogs while they loitered around the house, and spoken with their owners. Many insist that the dog just got loose, which from the condition of the dogs indicates to me the owners should be checked on for animal cruelty. A couple flat out told me they let their dogs run all year just to keep them in shape, and don't feed them much during Oct-Nov to make them "hungry". They just round them up and go hunting. These are not good people.

Second problem is that we have at least two groups of hound hunters that seem to think that it is OK to release the dogs on the road on one side of our property and line up on the road on the other side. Not only are they breaking the law by hunting from the road, but we find them in on our place as well. The game warden has been out and issued numerous citations for road hunting and taking does on buck only days, but has not caught them tresspassing yet. They are using radios to alert the other hunters in the party to sneak out of the woods before they get caught.

Unfortunately these types of experiences are the only ones many landowners see when dealing with hound hunters,and is what will turn most against it. I have no problem if a dog gets lost or runs over from property that the hunters have permission to be on, as long as they are nice enough to come let me know they think it is on my place I will even help find it. But when they are intentionally runningdogs across my property to shoot themas theycross theroad on the otherside, it really makes me mad.So does sneaking around my property to find a dog(s) and not at least having the courtesy to tell me you are there.

Unless the reputable dog hunting groups come forward and insist the state puts in place very stiff penalties for violationsbythe ones making them look bad, I don't see the divide between hound hunters and landowners getting any smaller.

Hokieman

This landowner like many has failed to do their job and contact the authorities about there problems. They feel they have to come to a forum and rant and rave instead of calling the local authorities and getting the issue resolved. ignorance is not an excuse.