Bywater

Big Bird - I respectfully disagree that the RTR is going to solve your problem. I also am saddened that none of you appear to understand that this law affects each type of hunting with dogs, of any species, all over the state. And yes, bird dogs too. NOT JUST DEER HUNTERS.

What you are complaining of is illegal activity, and abuse of the RTR.

In other states, just as North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Michigan, etc. this law exists as well. (not referred to as the RTR) In fact, in some states it is legal for any hunter to cross onto posted land to retrieve or track downed game. It's also legal for a citizen to trespass to retrieve their horses or other livestock.

Their law is much more expansive than Virginia's. So ask yourself - what is the difference between those states and Virginia? They have still hunters too. They have hunters who use dogs and hounds.

The difference is that in Virginia, our game wardens do not enforce it. They throw up their hands and say - oh - the commonwealth attorney's refuse to prosecute. Or, we can't do anything.

Bull. Yes they can - it is the unwillingness or inability of law enforcement to enforce the law. Does law enforcement have MOU's with other agencies so that any law enforcement officer can be brought in if the CPO is too far away. Why is there a retention problem with CPO's - and why are there so few of them. Response time can be several hours - a response time that would not be tolerated by any other agency; even in very rural areas.

And why does the rest of the state not have ANY legitimate complaints about hunting dogs? There is a cluster of complaints in a certain area of the state. The rest of the state has no problems. In fact, some hunt clubs have gone decades without ONE complaint from a landowner - and those clubs share the same land with still hunters as well.

I'm sorry - but you are asserting that every hunting dog owner in the state be punished because law enforcement refuses to prosecute a few jerks.

Unfortunately, this type of assertion is what has led to this Study and the ones controlling its outcome want to do away with ALL hunting. Heck - they've been successful in other states - why not here?

In case I have not stressed this enough - all hunting dgs fall within this Study. Bird dogs are as capable of straying onto posted land as a beagle chasing a rabbit.

Bow hunters are next, by the way. PeTA has a nice little fact sheet they hand out that tells people just how long it takes an animal to die from an arrow. It's the same type of misinformation and hyperbole that they put out about hunting with dogs. HSUS has similar handouts and action alerts.

Hokieman

I understand it effects all hunting dogs. I have been telling everyone for about a year that they need not wait for someone else to act but get in the fight or loose your rights.

www.vahda.org

free membership for those who join up online.

Lanse couche couche

I would love to see the studies demonstrating that 99 percent of all slob hunters arehound hunters. In fact, if you looked into it, you would likely find multiple examples of slob hunting by still hunters for every instance ofconfirmed slob hunting by hound hunter.

And I have been running the woods for 38 years and I seriously doubt that a deer (buck or otherwise) is gonna remain bedded down permanently because dogs came thru the woods earlier in the day. As has been mentioned before, most deer are used to overlapping with dogs, humans, livestock, machinery etc. If a deer didn't move for very long periods because it caught a whiff of dog scent or heard some barking, then many deer would starve to death because they wouldbe unable to movefrom their bed.

And I'm not sure about the whole argument of deer going nocturnal since you have coon hounds running the same woods that may be hunted with houds during the day. Following your argument, many deer could just as easily be non-nocturnal because they alsomay get spooked/chased by coonhounds at night.

Bywater

Big Bird - I'd like to know why you are willing to throw 30% of your fellow hunters under the bus because you've got some sort of chip on your shoulder.

No decent hunter abuses the RTR. If you've got some sort of problem in your area, then make an issue of it IN YOUR AREA.

Every single thing all of you complain about is ILLEGAL activity. Pass more laws.... and you're still going to have illegal activity. Because those people don't care about the law.

I'd hope that all hunters would email the SAC and express support for hunting with hounds - and express solidarity with law abiding houndsmen.

This Study is NOT about hunting deer with dogs. And I really wish hunters would pay more attention to the fact that it's HSUS and PeTA that are really behind this Study now. You really want them after you next? Who is going to stand up for you? Will there be anyone left?

The Study is NOT about deer hunters. That may be all you are getting out of it - but try looking at the big picture.

I don't hunt deer with dogs - but I do have a rabbit hound. I also allow my neighbor to hunt on my farm (still hunter). We've managed to be good neighbors, respect each other, and still pursue our individual sport. And I've still managed to increase the number of quail on my land; and my livestock have never been in jeopardy.

You seem to think that if the dogs are banned - you're going to get the woods all to yourself. It's playing right into the anti's hands. They pick us off one by one, because they know we're too busy fighting amongst ourselves to notice.

All the LAW ABIDING hound owners are asking is that hunters send a short email expressing support for their fellow hunters. We're not asking for anyone to condone law breakers or unethical hunters. Support hunting with hounds and support prosecution of lawbreakers.

I'd support you if the tables were turned.

HuntingEd

I'd support dog hunting if they stayed on their owners land. But it doesnt work that way. I've watched dogs blow into a sancturary on my property and the guys in the the trucks started shoot at the property line. How is that legal?

I'm against dog hunting for deer, because the dog owners act as if since they grew up in the area they somehow have a right to run their dogs everywhere. And dont ask how many thousands of dollars we've spent repairing roads dog hunters destroyed.

What really pisses me off is listening to the dogs that they "train" during the spring, running does when they are about to drop fawns or have just done so..

I would be extatic if VA outlawed dog hunting.


Thats just my view and I know you'll probably chew me out for it, but I've been affected negatively by it for 20 years now. And I'm tired of it.

Hokieman

HuntingEd Do you hunt VA? or just MD.

Phil from Maine

With all do respect Bywater I in fact do understand what is going on. As I have stated in an earlier post on here it is about ALL Hunting Dogs! In fact as stated the have already tried that here a few short years ago with bear hunting hounds being the way they tried to word it. We knew that what they were really after was again all hunting dogs just like this issue here is about the samething.. All hunting dogs would be banned if this is to past down there in Va. What I am not very sure of is how I would be of help up here in the state of Me. If I was to write a letter to them I doubt that they would concider what my opion would be. Mostly because I am out of state and along ways up north to really give an opion on your hunting laws. If I was hunting in your state perhaps it would have concideration but because I haven't again I think it would be more or less tossed aside..

ButchA

I don't want deer hound hunting banned. I would like it to be more regulated, that's all. Make the bad apples out there clean up their act.

We all need to stick together, regardless of our opinions, because like Hokieman was saying, PETA and HSUS will be coming after other hunters next!

Bigg~BirddVA

Unfortunately the study doesn't address what particular type of hound causes the most problems. I don't like to see real fox hunters, bird dogs, rabbit and coon hounds in with the ones causing the most issues. Many years ago the RTR law was amended to include all dogs. That's when deer hounds slipped into the picture. Unless individual licenses or some id system based upon game hunted or chased is implemented it's not going to differentiate one hound from the next. Gee SAC should have addressed that. It appears the hound hunters in there must have taken some sort of oath to stand by each other and not point blame at the cause. That's too bad as the one will take the others with it.


It's not illegal to chase deer and say I'm chasing foxes.
It's not ilegal to take a pack of dogs and walk through another's land and claim you're looking for one more dog when you're really doing a drive to waiting club members.
It's not illegal to drop off hounds in a 1/2 acre lot and let them hunt through lands you do not have permission oto be on.
It's not illegal to have your hounds overshoot the 75 acres you're hunting and run off the deer for the still hunter on the next piece. Chances of the deer coming right back are slim.
Tell me how to stop these acts will you without a law change?
And this training season on Sunday night Hackett is proposing is a joke. The hound group didn't want us to hunt on Sundays, I'll be damned if they're going to chase on Sundays. This is just another example of the one way street the dog chasers fel is a perfectly aceptable proposal. When they truly start caring for their fellow hunters we'll return those feelings.

Phil from Maine

First and formost is a law change and banning is 2 different things.
Training your bird dogs here is everyday during the year and hounds are under a different rule where a permit is needed so that the wardens know where they are and when they are there. The only permit needed for bird dogs is one so that you can shoot planted birds. Here deer hunting with hounds is illeagal because we do not have that many deer due mainly because of our winters. But the bear hunters we here the same arguement over and over. Most of those that are argueing are the sameones that want to post thier land anyways. They are trying to justify (sp) it by blaming the bear hunters.. When you are setting and here those bear hounds baying as they come running by doesn't mean a thing really. Sure they move deer around and sometimes it can be to your advantage. The deer here might be smarter as they will split up (except for a doe with fawns) that tend to stick together. When deer split up they run in all directions not just one.There for they also can come outby you while you are setting waiting for one to show up. Here there is no hunting on Sundays at all.. We are trying to change that but it is the religous groups that do not want hunting on Sundays here. That part is hard to understand when we can fish on Sundays but no hunting.. Hound hunting deer in your according to my understandings has been going on for years upon years in your area so why change it. I think you all need to do istry and work together to get threw those problems you are saying. I also do not think fox hunters are really trying to get deer with them or raccoon hunter either. I know if my bird dog was to start chasing deer it wouldn't be hunting any more!! They are more commonly trained to hunt one or 2 things and that's about it...