Brit won't use her nose
 

I got a brittney that refuses to use her nose when hunting anyone have any suggestions on what I can do about this?

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

Refuses to use her nose???
Can you tell us how she is refusing? She has to breath through her nose, so she is taking in air, unless she doesnt want to hunt...I dont really understand "how" she can refuseto use her nose. What are you doing, when she "refuses"?

Is it a stubborn dog? A pup? An older dog? What training stage is she in?(intro, Started, Finished) I need some more details, thats a pretty vague statement, my dog wont use her nose...

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

she won't scent anything birds, food, treats doesn't matter she won't use her nose to find any of them. She uses only her sight. She's 1 1/2 years old. She has most of her yard work done we are still trying to get a few things a little better with that. Have not gotten to shoot anything over her. She will point birds and just about anything else that flys but only when she sees it. She doesn't even act like she can smell the birds when I've lead her up to quail I've placed out for her.

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

She can smell them, unless she has something physically wrong with her scent detectors in her nose. She just wont acknowledge their scent presence... hmm.
Never had that problem before.
I would try this:
1. blind fold the dog, with a towel or a sock.
2. place her food inher bowel, but not in the usual spot.(if shes outside dog, put it in the yard; inside, put it in a different room.)
3. Next get her within 10' or so of the food (make sure she is hungry)
4. Let her sniff around to find her bowel.
5. The reward is supper, and take the apparatus off...

I would also do this with a fav. toy. Blind fold, sniff, play with toy as reward.

Progress into bird wings during yard work, let her find the scent with her nose, then point. Blind folded if need be.

Make her "work" for food, toys, or during yard work. I dont think her sniffer is broken, but I think she is getting bored and inversely lazy. Hence the easier sight points. Keep changing up your training tactics, never do a same routine, she will start getting bored of the same old games.

It could take a week or more, and I dont know if it will even work, but I would try it... Good luck.

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

Laying a foundation to train on.
Ever hunted with a dog doing yard work?
No
Bird Drive is step1
Learnig to Hunt is Step 2
Yard Work is step 3 or 4 (Depending)
To Fix This Problem.
Stop Everything
No Birds No Nothing for a few weeks or Months.
Restart in October or November
1. Put Dog In field with Birds. No Presure, No Gun.
Point, Knock, Chase, Whatever they do just so they are having fun and finding alot of birds.(2 weeks Min.)
When the dog holds steady for you to shoot a bird.
Shoot It
Repeat this for 2 weeks.
Now start the yard-work
Then Do something different
Field-Work and Yard-Work are required differently by different dogs.
Sometimes once a week for some everyday for others.
Never work the dog so much that he becomes goofy. Some can only handle this once a week.
Learn Your Dog.
If you have a bad training time.
Put the dog up and do somethingelse.
Never continue something negative and always try to end with a positive.

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

Dale,
I respect your knowledge of gundogs and as a trainer, but I dont see where halting training is going to get the dog to use her nose instead of sight pointing... I agree with you on easing the pressure and ending ona positive side, but dont you think if he just tried to switch it up instead of halting training would help break her lazy habit? Please enlighten me. Im just suggesting a force break of sight pointing.

Bird drive is #1, but this is the problem, she isnt showing bird drive... Even when he puts birds out...I'm just saying, force her into using that nose. Then again, maybe she just aint got bird drive in her blood...

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

Don't take that as she isn't interested in birds. This dog is bird crazy that is all she cares about in the world. Her favorite thing to do is go out to the horse pasture and chase cow birds all day the only thing wrong is her not using her nose. Pretty much everything else is good to go she will sight point birds and hold point until I release her. She will even run through the fields trying to find the birds but only by sight (I've actually watched her run over a quail that was hiding in the grass that then busted after she stepped on it). I can get her to listen to all of her basic commands. As far as the blind folding goes I've tried something similar to that with treats and all she does is falls over and starts freaking out until she gets the blindfold off but I am more then willing to give it a shot again.

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

Just wondering. What kind and variety of food was themother (Geez - can't use the word b - i - t - c - h on a gun dog site?)of the litter that your dog came from on?
What kind and variety of food do you have your dog on?
Do you know anything about the other pups from the litter as far as their noses?


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RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

Whatever you decide to do, you have to stay consistent! Dont givean inch, she wont ever forget what things she can do to get her way.

Let her freak out if she wants, wait patiently for her to calm down, then get her up on her feet and procede.

This is not good, I dont know what is wrong with her, insticts should tell her to find them with her nose. Only thing I can think of would bea blind fold or something, to get her to depend on her nose to search...

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

She came from the Nolans Last Bullet Line. Her parents both hunted very well from my understandings but I do not know anything about the other pups. I took her to a trainer a while back and he was saying just keep doing what I was doing and she'll figure the nose thing out but it still hasn't clicked. From everything I know about this breed it should have come naturally to use their nose instead of their eyes being that they generally can't see what they are hunting but they can always smell it. She's never used her nose though even when she was itty bitty. I'm starting to get worried that she has something wrong with her.

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

Have you tried bird scents (liquid) during yard work? She wont be able to see it, but will smell it.

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

I use pheasant scent on her big bumper and quail on her small bumper. She still can't go out in the yard and find her own toy though. I'm about to take her back to the trainer and leave her with him for a week or two and see what he comes up with.

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

Have you tried putting birds out and let your dog go (no check cord) and see what it does?
The reason I ask is I was having a problem kinda like yours w/ my dog. I had him on the CC and would lead him to the bird and it seemed like he couldnt smell. but I got w/ a trainer and he said unhook the CC once and see what happends and he went flying around finding/flushing/chasing all the birds. so the problem was not the nose it was for some reason or other he was shutting down on the CC.
another thing is at this time of year depending on the heat and a no breeze its a little harder for them to pick up scent and even more so for an unexperienceddog.
I am not a trainer so take that w/ a grain of salt. and I also agree w/ what Dale said.

oh you said about taking him to a trainer. well that might be the best option.
good luck and keep us posted

I should add that my dog was a champ at sight pointing. but would not point on scent. a bunch of hard flying birds and releases was the trick

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

I've never taken her off the CC on quail i'm worried she'd catch them. From what I've seen though even the black birds and cow birds she chases she doesnt scent them she just runs around looking for them by sight.

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

Why i stated to put the dog up is because.
You know she smells them, yet refuses to act.
This is a form of blinking.
more than likely from too much bird contact / training.
give the dog a break. then see what happens.
Often i am faced with problem dogs. After evaluation of the problem. In most cases it is several problems.
90% of the time i start them all over again.
It works

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

This comes across differently to me than "restart in a few months" did. I agree about taking a break, but I wouldnt let the dog develop too many bad habits without correction through interaction/training... thats all I was trying to say. A few months just seems like too big of a gap to me, but if it works it works.
Thanks Dale.

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

This is a tough one to answer not knowing alot about her early bird exposure and the amount of bird exposure she's had. But, anytime in training your come up against a problem is either time to slow down, or back up. Inthis case, I think you need to back up. Alot of the ability for you to fix this dog would depend on your ability to get her in the field and into birds. Not just once in a while, I mean lots and lots of birds. I would get some good flying quail or chukar. Find a field or two that has thick enough cover that she won't see a bird. Plant the field with a few birds, then turn her loose without the CC. Let her find birds, bump, chase, and hopefully not catch. If she bumps them and chases down and catches them, no big deal at this point. She's got problems, and sometimes you need to let her get away with some things, in order to fix others. Some brittanies i have trained are very prone to bumping birds and have an almost impulsive desire to chase birds all over the place including those of the non-gamebird variety. This is good up to a point to build desire, but a 1 1/2 year old dog should start to realize these are not the primary focus while in the field. You need to discourage this....GENTLY. I would stop her from running wild chasing birds around the house at leastwhile you try to get her focused on pointing game birds. If you can't get her into alot of birds, on a regular basis, then a trainer would probably be your best option.

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

I'lll try again.................see above.


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RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

My dog loved to chase non game birds like yours. and like this time of year he still does cause he gets bored when we are out just for a run and not hunting or training. but throw in some game birds and he could careless about the non gamebirds. But i have a big problem if i shoot and miss a bird he is on the chase.

Sixxemkennels- I was looking at your site, you have some nice dogs. I love the Fiddler in the EP pedigrees.

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

I honestly bet the nose on her doesnt work, or work to its full extent. Common in the brits, in general, and has been a common factor in the differenmt lines of. Unfortunately, they are nice dogs. I washed one out last summer, never attempted to do a thing, loved birds, had alot of desire, but could not point, never once made the acknowledgemnet that a bird was present. Had extra feathers out, had went up, and down wind, over the top, in the mornin an the evening, never once tried to show me the smell in the air changed. Kept it a month showed my owner, an we sent home. It happens, unfortunate, but it does. Not making that call here on yours, but awful strange coincidence. Thanks Jonesy

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

Thats honestly what I'm starting to think is happening. Because she can't even locate food such as cheese with her nose. My little yorkshire will find the food even if I hide it under stuff but my brit is never figures it out.

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

Took her to the vet today her smeller is good. She just has selective smelling she just doesn't want to bother using her nose so she won't. Not exactly sure if thats good news or bad news. She's not broken just stubborn.

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

ACutting- well that's good news. I think maybe the problem is she just hasent learned to use her nose yet. good luck im sure she will be fine, but i would try letting a trainer take her for a while.

Jonesy good to hear from you again

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

Maybe something is not clicking in her head. Perhaps, she can't differenciate between scent?

So, you're saying you put her on a CC then approach a planted quail, she doesn't smell it but bumps it then chase. Every other time, you let her free to chase black birds around the yard.

Have you shot over her yet? It seems to me she is enjoying the chase and not thinking about 'hunting'. How many times you've taken her hunting?

My dog I'll let her chase squirrels, rabbits, etc. She'll also creep on robins, tail down, stalking. I don't mind; she enjoys it. But get a pheasant hiding in a bush in front, she'll hold firm, tail high. That only comes with bird exposure and actually getting out there.

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

I think Mite has stated a key thing for you, get her some more exposure and see what happens. I do not believe that she has had enough exposure to know what you are trying to do. Sent a few bushes as well to get her hunting around without any thing there once in a while. But, keep at her she should come around and try to get her out as much as possible. Even if it is only 15-30 minutes a day will help her..

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

I wont argue about what an how, the dog isnt useing the nose, when its needed...if it has one. When the vet done the smellin test, was the dog able to see the stuff that it supposedly smelled? Like dogs learn to look an smell together. I am working a setter here that I believe is deaf, or darn close to. But she has learned being with other dogs how to accomidate the loss or no hearing booger she has going on...when she looks at me will come running, if she is going away or past me, where she cant she, I can holler, or sing to her, blow whistle, shoot gun, honk truck horn, man all sorts of things, and I get no response, or reaction out of her. everything in this situation will be ok, because everything works but her ears. She is still a trainable dog. The nose not working is a major concern, the vets arent as smart as they seem to be in different circumstances. I would say this could be a time when book smart, an not street smart plays a roll. Unfortunately. Jonesy

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

Phil, 3-5 birds on a dog an it should be pointing, or real close , maybe even flash point if its smelling. I would like to see it an set the dog up, but would bet it doesnt work. Its just a common things that I have heard on street an experienced that happens in the brit lines. Jonesy

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

I will not argue either Jonsey but, one test i would give to her would be to find go buy a dog bone with a little meat on it. Then I would let her have it for a short while, and take it away from her. Then tiea piece of string on it and drag it through the tall grass. If she can find it then you would know her nose works and if not then I would say it is time to give up on her training. That is just my 2 cents on this.

I had a nieghbor that had a Brit and all that one would do was flush them. He didn't mind as he got to see alot of birds though, and we know what fun it is to try and shoot them on the wing. It is a whole lot harder shooting like that especialy with the grouse flying zig zag thru the trees..

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

They did a strange scent test at the vet where they actually took clothing and put scent on it in one spot then she if she would find the scent on the clothing and she would go straight to it every time. She's obviously capable of smelling. I haven't hunted the dog because I can't get her to point anything during training sessions. She hasn't been on that many quail anyways because the state I am in its very difficult to get a hold of quail for dog training you have to apply for a wild game permit and have special caging for the birds and all kinds of crap and wild birds here don't exist we don't have a wild population of quail or pheasants. Once it cools off a bit I think I will probably take her to the trainer again or apply for the permit and and locate some birds. I have access to a couple of nice fields that I can train her in. Place some birds out for her and start working her. Last time I got ahold of some I did that but she just ran the birds over. Should I hobble the birds or what should I do on the actually setting techniques? And should I shoot some over her even if she's not pointing correctly? Obviously something I've done in training isn't correct or I wouldn't be having this problem (least that is how I feel)

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

Its good that the nose works,

As far as shooting over her, Slow down, back up, stop!
Dont get into a hurry, just get her to start finding birds. NO shooting, no CC, let her get birdy. Then work on getting her steady, then in a few weeks or months, when she is finding (Nose), and pointing, and is steady for the flush of the covey, start thinking about shooting over her.

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

Birdy isn't an issue. She is very very birdy. She just isnt' finding them with her nose. Let me explain what she does right now. I have her heeling, I can get her to whoa (still needs some work), she comes, she will hold on whoa until I release her most of the time, she will point birds if she sees them before they fly. She will fetch frozen quail no matter how far I throw them (not sure how she is finding them sometimes with out using her nose). I've gotten her pretty well sound conditioned.

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

What state are you in? an all the other stuff she will do doesnt mean diddly if the nose an her brain is not a team. Lets say you put a quail out, dizzy up real good, and you let it sit for lil bit, and you go in a get it up.....when you go get the dog what does it do....does it show some sort of acknowledgement that the bird is or was in there.
OK here is a god test for you, get a bird, quail or pigeon prolly be easiest.....you take an put the bird down in grass, lets say ankle to shin deep, I want you to place it in an area where the scent should hang around....even if its a hole in the grass with taller grass around.....you put it in there try an dizzy if you can, 1st time have bird in, an then get it to flush....grab the dog an walk her in the area, get no closer than two foot before you hit the spot where the bird was....see what she does, walk a big circle around, if no wind. I want you to understand and others........people get in a big hurry to have a bragging tool.......whoa dont mean diddly it is one of the most abused words in the dogs world. All it usually does is create a buncha boogers somewhere in the training program. It is a control issue on desire for the bird in 99% of all cases...Guys bring dogs here an have it so called whoa broke.......I say ok, will it point?? uuuuuh sometimes. Most of the time its dad pointing.... an stoppin the dog to let it watch. Not a safety issue either, here works as well as whoa, if the dog can hear whoa....it can hear the word here. So now that all thats in thought, set the dog up an lets do our own tests an see what we can figure out. K?? Thanks Jonesy

RE: Brit won't use her nose
 

Actually, a friend'sblack labis the same way. Rescue dog at three years old, won't use his nose. She says the dog is dumb, I say, the dogtrained you to think it's dumb. Throw a treat at it, the dog won't even try to find it. Why not? Because you'll always throw another.

Oneway to get the dog into training birds is game farms. Where I go its about $6-$7/chukar so 1/2 a dozen of them comes tojust over $50.They don't have bob whites, which would be better and cheaper. If there's another dog theresometimes you can rent,do so. Sometimes, a young dog will learn from an older experienced dog. Make sure wind conditions are right and your walking into the wind. Heat can also play a major role in finding birds, if the dog's panting, he's not using his nose.

Personally, I would stop the yard training for a bit and concentrate on the problem at hand. If the dog can prove to you that it still knows and obeys then it's enough.

Dizzing a bird: I don't know about how to dizzing a pigeon but with bobwhites we used toput the heads under their wing, hold it that way and with both arms swing the bird around like a clock; 12 is over your head, 3 is on your right, etc. Continue this for about1/2 a minute. Then lay it gently into the grass. Others like toturn the bird over and strokethe belly. It's been many years since I've done it though.