Go Back  HuntingNet.com Forums > General Hunting Forums > Sporting Dogs
 Breeds you have owned, own, and opinions >

Breeds you have owned, own, and opinions

Sporting Dogs What's the best dog for what type of game? Find out what other hunters think.

Breeds you have owned, own, and opinions

Old 02-08-2007, 09:59 AM
  #21  
Fork Horn
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 105
Default RE: Breeds you have owned, own, and opinions

Oh wow, don't do that. Your lab that was half springer or setter wasn't a lab! I guess you could have as easily called it a springer or a setter and have been just as right. My guess is that it looked mostly like a lab so you called it a lab. When crosses like that happen they sometimes seem to work, in the odd pup. But what usually happens is that traits collide and other than visual likeness of one of the breeds, or even a mixture of visual likeness, they are rather useless as anything other than a buddy to share lunch with.

I discussed this pointing lab thing on another site and I'm quite sure someone is going to get the idea of crossing a chocolate lab with a solid liver shorthair, if it hasn't already happened. what do you have then? If it doesn't do anything well, you'll create a brown mongrol. If it suit's you, you still have a brown mongrol. Getting breeds to display certain traits we refer to as instincts, on a reliable basis takes many many generations of very selective and closely controled breeding.
Don Fischer is offline  
Old 02-08-2007, 10:43 AM
  #22  
Fork Horn
 
RustyD02359's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: MA
Posts: 166
Default RE: Breeds you have owned, own, and opinions

Which is what would have to be done by selectively picking the ones to continue with. But like you say it takes a long time unless you have the space, and resources to do it with a lot of stock.

I am sure many a dog man said don't do that to many of the crosses that ended up the dogs we have today.
A pointer isn't a pointer, its a mix of foxhound, greyhound, Bloodhound were crossbred into basic "setting spaniel" stock. It is also suspected that the Italian Pointer, Newfoundland and Bulldog may have been used in his makeup. Later, during the 19th century, the Pointer was crossed with the various setters as they came into existence. It's generally accepted that this was done to improve temperament, as the original Pointer was said to have had a ferocious disposition. The modern Pointer has remained basically unchanged in the last 90 to 100 years.
etc..which developed into todays (english) Pointer

So crosses are not a bad thing not that I am suggesting it. Just that if it happens it is not unatural to do.
RustyD02359 is offline  
Old 02-10-2007, 07:27 AM
  #23  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location:
Posts: 698
Default RE: Breeds you have owned, own, and opinions

This throws a loop into everything

daleh is offline  
Old 02-10-2007, 07:38 AM
  #24  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location:
Posts: 698
Default RE: Breeds you have owned, own, and opinions

When you talk about dogs being crossed or pure bred. Here is what has happened over the last 40 years.
English Pointers have beenbred with walker hounds to make them run harder
German Shorthairs have beenbred with EP to put more bird sense, drive to them and more run
Briitanys have been bred by Setters to create a horseback dog
A Pointing Lab is a English Pointer and Lab Cross that looks like a lab all that looked like pointers were culled
The most winning Setter of all time (his dad was a Pointer)

daleh is offline  
Old 02-10-2007, 12:39 PM
  #25  
Boone & Crockett
 
Phil from Maine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 12,345
Default RE: Breeds you have owned, own, and opinions

The Irish was believed to have started from the setting spaniel from Spain, which was imported to Ireland. The exact make up is unknown but, has been stated as from The Bloodhound, Pointer, Irish Water Spaniel, Gordon Setter, English Setter, and their progenitors have all been named as possible ancestors. Whatever crosses were used the transition from spaniel to setter was apparently very gradual. A close connection betweenthe breeds is further indicated by the existencein Irelandin about 1770 of a variety of setters called red spaniels.

Now we have had the show people try and ruin them but, fortunately some have survived this onslaught. Today there has been the Red Setter developed to try and save the Irish? But, overall my point is that by trying to create your own breed ofsporting/hunting dogfor the most part is a long process to go and not just a quick sudden here you go. So myself I do not encourage it though some have done this and it appears to be working OK for them.
Phil from Maine is offline  
Old 02-10-2007, 05:01 PM
  #26  
Fork Horn
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 105
Default RE: Breeds you have owned, own, and opinions

ORIGINAL: daleh

When you talk about dogs being crossed or pure bred. Here is what has happened over the last 40 years.
English Pointers have beenbred with walker hounds to make them run harder
German Shorthairs have beenbred with EP to put more bird sense, drive to them and more run
Briitanys have been bred by Setters to create a horseback dog
A Pointing Lab is a English Pointer and Lab Cross that looks like a lab all that looked like pointers were culled
The most winning Setter of all time (his dad was a Pointer)
E. Pointer's were crossed with foxhound's not walkers. I doubt that the lab was bred with an E, Pointer to make a pointing lab, not enough white shows up in the pointing lab. Maybe they were crossed between black or cho. labs and solid liver shorthairs. Bet no one will admit it! Nobody is admiting to britt's being bred to setter's either but I have seen some Britt's with a LOT of white and some damn long legs and a bit long and fine hair. And yep, GSP's were bred to E.Pointer's. Nobody want's to admit that either. You ever get a chance to look at a photo of a GSP named "Tell", imagine him with a long tail.

Now all of these crosses, if they really did happen and I don't doubt they did, created a type of dog that is,,,,,,well different than the standard and doesn't quite conform to what's expected. If cross breeding hadn't occured, all dogs would look like coyote's or wolves. But to gain anything of value is a very long and selective process.

There is another dog of questionable value which is the "dropper". A cross between the e. pointer and the e. setter. The chances of ending up with a dog that is huge running and can't take training well are very good.

I think if people would just keep doing these wonder breedings, we would eventually end up with a lot more coyote's that fetch and share lunch with their humans.
Don Fischer is offline  
Old 02-10-2007, 09:56 PM
  #27  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Benton, AR
Posts: 7
Default RE: Breeds you have owned, own, and opinions

It's the craziest thing- my wife's chihuahua tracks deer better than any dog I've ever seen. She used to tease him with tufts off the tails of my kills when he wasa pup as a joke. Now we don't dare let him off leash- he goes deer hunting no matter what's in season.
Thumper11bush is offline  
Old 02-10-2007, 10:05 PM
  #28  
Fork Horn
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location:
Posts: 299
Default RE: Breeds you have owned, own, and opinions

A "dropper" can be any breed shorthair to britt,britt to setter, britt to pointer. How can you make that assumption that breeding a pointer to a setter will result in a big running dog that cant take training??
Blueditch42 is offline  
Old 02-11-2007, 12:12 AM
  #29  
Fork Horn
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 105
Default RE: Breeds you have owned, own, and opinions

ORIGINAL: Blueditch42

A "dropper" can be any breed shorthair to britt,britt to setter, britt to pointer. How can you make that assumption that breeding a pointer to a setter will result in a big running dog that cant take training??
Dropper's were origionally called that when pointer's and setter's were intentionally bred, the other's are crossbreeds. If you care to get William Brown's book "field Trials" I believe he makes reference to dropper's in it. Get the book thru American Field Publishing.

The assumption is easy to make. If you breed a hard headed big running pointer to a soft temperment setter some of the offspring can show both traits. Then you could end up with a big running dog that can't take the training. The setter's are generally a soft temperment dog to begin with but also generally a lot more bidable than the pointer's. People that fool around crossing breeds seldom stop to concider what they really might get. They for some reason believe that they should get the best of both worlds. If they do a couple time's then they think they found just the thing. You never convince them it's a fools mission until it fails badly on them. Creating reproducable traits in a dog takes many generations of selective breeding and ruthless culling.
Don Fischer is offline  
Old 02-11-2007, 04:03 PM
  #30  
Typical Buck
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: golden co
Posts: 852
Default RE: Breeds you have owned, own, and opinions

The only dog I would currently owned is a well bred Labrador.Is there were another dog (outside of the retrievers breeds) that can mark difficult triples, handle icy water, upland hunt, and be taught to do technical 300 yd blinds?????????
losthwy is offline  

Quick Reply: Breeds you have owned, own, and opinions


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.