Need Medical help.......
 

I have a two year old Male GSP.
In May of last yearhis left ankle and foot swelled up. At that time I put ice on it and in a day every thing looked good. The thought was that he smacked it on the front step. (he was very clumsy) lol. Well a month later the same thing the ankle swelled up and he would not walk on it. So I Took him to the vet. They did some X rays but found nothing wrong. Put him on some inflammatory meds. every thing was fine for a while. Then the same thing left ankle swelled. The vet took blood and some tissue samples. Found nothing out of the ordinary. Sent the info to Iowa sate. And they looked at it and could not find any thing wrong. But we put him on a Joint support plus med, and a month long worth of Firocoxib. Well hunting season started and His foot looked good. So we hunted. I kept an eye on his foot. No problems. Then five days ago his foot swelled again. It has been over 9 months since his last ankle problem. But the vets office has run out of opinions. We did put him back on the Firocoxib. But it is not helping yet. been 4 days now.
I have been calling around to different vets in the area but they just want to do the same tests. Should I??
This dog lives in the house with us sleeps on the floor. And the kids give him lots of running. Plus the training we do. The problems never seems to happen after a hard day of training. Just out of the blue. This last time he was fine the night before we did no training just a lazy day. The next morning his foot was swollen twice the size.[/align]
Any help would be great. [/align][/align]Sorry this is so long just trying to give all the info I could.
This is really hard on the family because we hate to see him in pain, and we cant find a fix.[/align][/align]Thanks
Jeff[/align]

RE: Need Medical help.......
 

did they check for blood flow in his leg ???.. just to make sure ,i am not sure how to do it in a dog but i just had it done and i was have some of the same probelms...

RE: Need Medical help.......
 

Well I am not sure about that one. What problems did you have with the bad blood flow?
Any thing I could watch for?
Might have to talk to the vet about that one.
Thanks

RE: Need Medical help.......
 

What kind (ingredients and amounts) of "Joint Supplement" did you have the dog on?


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RE: Need Medical help.......
 

Joint Support Plus
BY Resources
Glucosamine Sulfate 420mg
vitamin c 263mg
perna mussel 210mg
MSM 210mg
sea cucmber 105
polygonum 53
Angelica Sinensis 26mg
Rehmannia 26 mg
Alfalfa powder 26mg
Manganese 11mg
Vitamin E 53l.u.
Given 2 tablets twice a day 120 tablets

RE: Need Medical help.......
 

From Bruce S from another message board
"Not sure about dogs, but recurrent swelling in a human's joint would suggest recurrent sprain (has he had a ligamentous injury that hasn't healed with sufficient stability to prevent recurrent instability symptoms), systemic inflammatory process (gout, rheumatoid arthritis, etc. - dont' know what dogs get in that department), primary joint or bone disease (foreign body in bone/joint causing infection or cartilage injury, or an ununited fracture not seen on x-ray that acts up with increased activities), or some sort of intermittent venous obstruction (blood clot in veins above joint)?

To be essentially asymptomatic between bouts would suggest unrecognized recurrent injury, or ununited fracture, or fracture healed in poor alignment but not seen on standard x-ray views). The fact that it can do a decent workout OK, and then swell after no increased activity is a bit weird and the fact that it's been nine months since the last bout is very peculiar.

Your best bet is an MRI and/or bone scan, both of which should be available at a vet school. The MRI will show bones and marrow and ligaments and tendons, muscles,etc. and can detect disruptions or inflammatory changes. A bone scan looks like an x-ray but shows blood supply to bones and will "light up" with fractures, arthritis, etc. MRI is better but bone scan can sure help pinpoint the problem. In humans, blood tests can be helpful for gout, RA, etc (ESR, C-reactive protein, plus the usual blood chemistries), but I would think these diseases less likely.

The ESR (erythrocyte sedimentation rate) is a standard test for inflammation and I assume they use it in dogs. Basically the test is putting some blood in a little capillary tubes and measuring how fast the blood cells settle to the bottom - blood with antibodies is heavier than that without so a higher level suggests infection or inflammation). So it's non-specific, but gets you looking in the right direction. A normal ESR and C-reactive protein pretty much rules out stuff like rheumatoid arthrits and other weird inherited inflammatory diseases, and in your case would help rule out infection in joint or bone.

Treating with anti-inflammatories will reduce symptoms but will unlikely cure any underlying problem. They are good for ongoing arthritis, aches and pains but in themselves offer no curative treatment - e.g. they are not like antibiotics treating an infection, etc. You're looking for a cause, so if you can't find a cause then chronic anti-inflammatories may be all you've got.

You should examine and compare the wrists on both sides, both during and before bouts. Is the range of motion in all planes similar? Stress the joint in a side-side fashion noting any difference or what causes pain, etc.

Not trying to play vet here but sounds like your stuck so I offer this advice."



WOW
great info there. Thanks you very much. I have an apt. at the vet tonight for another x-ray then if there is no difference between the first one and this one he is going to recommend me to Iowa state. Not sure what they are but it sounds like they are the pros. for lack of a better word.
I know the vets office does not have an MRI but Iowa state should. I think that is the route I need to be looking.

RE: Need Medical help.......
 

check for stiffness,swelling and hard to move sometimes if he cant walk straight,good luck at the vet,let us know how he is.....

RE: Need Medical help.......
 

Well during the times he is not laid up. He is fine the leg looks good and there is no sign of stiffness swelling, runs on all fours. It is just during thenext couple of dayswhile the swelling sets in that the laimness starts. thenafter wards he will be good again.
Well I am heading to the vet now I will keep every one updated.

RE: Need Medical help.......
 

Looks like great ingredients -- Why aren't you using it now?


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RE: Need Medical help.......
 

I ran out of Supply. And thought the problem was taken care of.
The vet does not think it is bone or joint issue. He took some more x rays and is getting on the net, and to Iowa State to try and get more info for us on what is going on. He is going to refer us to Iowa state to get a MRI done. He said it has fluid in the tissue you can push in on it and it would leave an indent in his leg from the fluid. There was a name but I don't remember the name of what he called it. He said he didn't think it was in the capaularies.
So we still wait not knowing what is going on. He did switch his meds to Prednisone 20mg to help with the swelling.

[/align]

RE: Need Medical help.......
 

I would like to point out that you can have adnormal hereditary inflammation despite having a normal ECR tests. Note: I have CNS vasculitis, a diseaserelated to inflammation of the blood vessel but ECR test came out normal.

Concerning your dog, if it was a human, I would check for systematic lupus-type diseases. An MRI isn't that great for this. A full panel check or an angiogram. This is because the MRI isn't high enough resolution. In an angiogram, a scope is inserted into a vessel, then dye is used to help take pictures of the problem area. Also, watch your dog carefully if your giving that much predisone. Predisone can cause bloating, leaches calcium out of bones, and skin rashes. You'll also want to gradually reduce dosage instead ofstopping immediately.

I hope they find out what's wrong. Good luck.

RE: Need Medical help.......
 

Well after doing some research on the net. I found the word the vet kept using Lymphedema. Sounds like a lot of the same symptoms. Now just how to prove that is what it is and how to fix it. The swelling has moved up his entire leg now. Any one know about this Lymphedema? I am not understanding what I need to do about this. Or what can be done.[/align]

RE: Need Medical help.......
 

1. Joint supplements should be a life-long regime. They are decent as treatments, but they are even more important as preventatives. (You know, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure").

2. Probably Edema or Lymphedema.



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RE: Need Medical help.......
 

Well still waiting back from the Vet but from the reading on the net it sounds like Lymphedema. toa untrained person. But I cant find out much about how to fix this problem.
Any help?

Thanks

RE: Need Medical help.......
 

i have been checking on it to @ webmd.com did you go there ???

i am disabled from something like that my doctors have had a hard time trying to figure it out . it is to long to go into on the fourm bus some of the treatment might help

i can e-mail my # if that would be easier

RE: Need Medical help.......
 

My vet did call today but the same result they have no idea what is going on. They do know it is a edema but don't know why or what is causing it. They said they would do some more research on it the next couple of days, and I could go to Iowa State and have them look at it. The swelling is going down now and starting to look a lot better. Even if we do find out that it is one of the two Edemas it sounds like there is nothing that can be done about it. Except what we are doing now. rubbing it out, and the meds.
From what I have read on the net this could be hereditary, or an infection of some kind. Right now I am unemployed/layed off, So we are going to wait tell this happens again to have any further tests done.
Unless we hear of some thing different to do.
Thanks for all the help guys.
I will keep every one posted with any new information that come up.[/align]

RE: Need Medical help.......
 

I am not in that field so I can not give you sound advice
except good luck on your dog's recovery and hopefully
finding that cure for it.

RE: Need Medical help.......
 

i wish we could do something more..

RE: Need Medical help.......
 

Update 8-8-06
Well went to Iowa State yesterday with he dog. Leg still has some small swelling but he is using it.
They did a whole baray of tests more blood work, joint tap, more tissue samples against my own thoughts. They wanted to start fresh with the tests so they (ISU) could try to find out for them self's what is going on. They didn't want to do a MRI yet until all these tests come back first. They don't think it is Edema. Because he has not lost his leg and or the swelling has not gotten worse. Meaning that the vessels still have some flow through them. Is there any way there could be a partially blockage in the wrist?? Or some way he could be bending his knee and causing the blockage???????
ISU is stuck on thinking that it is a bug or parasite causing the problem. Still waiting for some of the tests to come back. They are trying to grow a culture from the joint fluids. So we will see. And he has put him on 30 day supply Doxyccyline 150mg
Notsure how he can put him on a drug and not know what the problem is yet