Labs for Upland game?
 

Hey guys! I am gonna be getting my first dog next year. I was originally thinking about a brittany pointer. I wanted a good upland dog, however in a couple years I am going to be getting into waterfowling quite seriously. So I am wondering if a lab would be a good upland bird dog too? My main upland birds will be grouse/woodcock, and a bit of pheasant. I am also interested in trying quail hunting with my dog. So will a lab be any good (with proper training of course) for upland? Thanks a bunch,

RE: Labs for Upland game?
 

I hunt my Labs as much or more on upland game as on waterfowl. Since there are no pheasant around my area it's all grouse & woodcock hunting. They'll hunt them up and flush the birds. My current Lab is out of a long line of hunting Labs(MH, GHRCH, HRCH, & Upland titles). He works close, slow, & deliberate. The only drawback of a Lab on grouse & woodcock is that they don't point like the pointers and setters. So you have to pay close attention to the dog when it gets "birdy".
As for "proper training" for upland hunting, I merely start getting a pup in the woods early and alot where there are plenty of birds. Any formal or intense training I do is on obedience, marking, and handling which carrys over into the grouse woods.

RE: Labs for Upland game?
 

I was out the other day with a guy that hunts primarily upland game, and has a black lab. He's a very nice dog. Worked a close pattern in front of us, pointed the birds, then flushed, and retrieved to hand. Very very nice dog. One that would also do well with waterfowl as the lab is a born retriever.

However, if I had my choice and money wasn't too much of a consideration, I'd have a Pudel Pointer. The PP is very much at home with upland game or waterfowl. I don't have a PP, at present I have a German Shorthair, and he's awesome, but if I add a dog and money isn't tight, it will be a PP. I don't know if they are awidely known breed, but the research I've done on them left me impressed with them. This breeder: http://www.cedarwoodgundogs.com/ really seems to know his stuff, and had good information about PP's.

A lab is also an excellent choice, and probably cheaper than a PP, but I'm a firm believer in waiting a little extra, paying a little more, and getting exactly what you want. Do a little homework and then you'll be glad with your final choice.

Best of luck.

RE: Labs for Upland game?
 

I had hunted over two labs last season at a preserve. Both dogs, a mother son combo worked awesome togther. They both got birdy when the time came and the mom even pointed one time. You may want to look into a GSP, thats what I got because I too wanted a good upland bird hunter and a waterfowl picker upper. The GSP have webbed feet and very short hair which should be great for waterfowl. Our GSP is very birdy and nimble so she covers ground like there is no tomorrow. Just another option for ya, but the Labs I hunted over last year were great so you really cant go wrong either way!

RE: Labs for Upland game?
 

With your emphasis on waterfowl abilities, a lab would be a good choice for a combo woodcock/grouse/waterfowl dog. A GSP or GWP could handle your needs as well. Probably a little better on upland ability than a lab, but not as good at handling cold-water work.

Throw in quail hunting and you have a problem. If you're talking wild quail-- a dog needs more run than a lab has in him.

Kinda like pickin a gun. I'd consider how I was going to use the dog most of time and make a decision based on that.

Good luck.

RE: Labs for Upland game?
 

For some reason in the USA everyone thinks a bird has to be pointed to be shot and for some arcane reason this is better. I had a Lab for my first hunting dog. We shot every game bird one could shoot in the western US, even birds one is suppose to shoot over pointers (chukar and gray partridge). A Lab will find and flush as many graouse as you want to shoot. If you are "illiterate" and can't read your dog, you won't be ready for a shot, but most people can.
A Lab is a wonderful choice for what you are trying to do. One doesn't need a different breed than a Lab to hunt with. I likeChessies and terriers morejust becasue the Lab is so ubiquitous but you won't make a mistake. The thing to remember is if you train for retrieving you get upland hunting as a "free lunch". This is what James B Spencer stated in a number of his"Retrieve" columns in Gun Dog Magazine. If your dog can sit on the whistle (every time), come (every time) you can cut the Lab lose and let it hunt and you can keep it in gun range and shoot birds. The Lab marks better than a PP, GSP, or GWP.This means yourLab will retrieve the ducks better,IT'S WHAT THEY DO. IT'S THEIR REASON FOR EXISTENCE. Buy the Lab. You will be happy.

DrFatguy

RE: Labs for Upland game?
 

I would venture to make a bet that more birds are shot over labs and GSPs each year than all other breeds combined. A lab is a decent upland dog and a great retriever. They lose their advantage when hunting out west for sharptails and pheasant in open country where a big ranging dog makes the difference. For hunting marshes for pheasants though a lab is a good dog.

However, if you like style, a good springer spaniel is the prettiest rough shooting dog you will ever see.

RE: Labs for Upland game?
 

Alaska Magmun,
I would heartily agree, a springer is a great upland dog and beautiful to watch. My first dog hunted the deserts of Utah and we did well. Was she the best choice for chukars and Huns? No, but she adapted and we did well. This I think is the strength of the Lab and the GSP, they adapt. These two breeds love to be trained.

Dr Fatguy

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RE: Labs for Upland game?
 

I have been using a Deleware Black Lab to hunt duck, Goose upland birds. He is an excellent dog and I see my boys and I walking away with plenty of birds compared to most. He needed very little training and was a natural at pointing and holds well when out a bit. He also loves the water, which we need for WF, but this also isgoodfor pheasant - I have seen dogs stop a rivers/pond when on it but mydog just jumps rightand scents the far bank to drive them back to us.

The only thing tough with this dog is that he just does not like other dogs - especially when scent. I try to keep away from the crowded areas - which is hard opening day and early in the season. He also ignores the Gun Dog collar I bought to train - when I hit him he looks around like he was stung by a bee.

RE: Labs for Upland game?
 

Wont short hair be bad for icy water?

RE: Labs for Upland game?
 

When the lake gets real Icy I dont plan on going out waterfowling anymore. We should be able to go through Oct into Novermber. I am thinking about getting her one of those padded vests too. One good thing about the short hair is it does not hold much water, when she shakes herself shes pretty much damp at best.

RE: Labs for Upland game?
 

Pointing will be hard, but retrieving should be normal.

RE: Labs for Upland game?
 

I'm a biased Lab guy who owns three and 90% of the time they are flushing upland birds. They are easy to train for both upland and waterfowl. They also rank as one of the best family dog breeds. I love GSP's as well and don't think you would make a mistake by buying a GSP either. I honestly don't know how to get a GSP to sit tight in a duck blind when it's nature and primary training is to quarter a field with grace?

Best of luck and keep us posted on what you decide.

-Mathewsconquest2

RE: Labs for Upland game?
 

Yes.
Since you are getting into waterfowling, there isNO other dog that is better for waterfowl. Upland is not the main focus of the breed, that said, they do a strong job there as well.

RE: Labs for Upland game?
 

It is called obedience. Sit and stay mean just that. There is no reason why a properly trained GSP cannot sit still in a duck blind.

RE: Labs for Upland game?
 

For as long as I can remember I've owned and trained labs. They are great pets and hunters for both waterfowl and upland birds. A dog trained to find downed watefowl will have no problem with finding birds in a field. One thing though, you may find that your lab will retrieve pheasants to you that you never shot. I don't know how many birds my labs caught and brought back to me - quite a few.

RE: Labs for Upland game?
 

I would think so. My brother in law has two labs...a yellow and a black..that he uses for basically the same purposes that you mentioned...and he does very well with them.

RE: Labs for Upland game?
 

I spent many years hunting grouse and woodcock with a springer. Hunting the uplands behind a flushing dog is very exciting. Five years ago I got a setter whenI retired my springer. He is good, but it's adifferent kind of hunting. I know I'll have a springer again in the future.

I would say that a springer, and a lab hunt the same way, but each specializes in a different area. I would say if you plan to do more upland hunting get a springer, but if you plan to do more waterfowling get a lab. A springer can retrieve from the water, but can't handle the cold as well as a lab, and a lab can hunt the uplands, but might be a bit harder to read, and a bit slower to cover ground. Either way, when the dog gets birdy, move into a clear space where you can swing the gun, and get ready.

I'm going to say something nice about the pointing breeds now. Depending on how you hunt the uplands, a pointing breed might actually be for you. With my springer, I would actually have to follow her and bird dog the cover because you never know when the bird will flush. Since I have gotten a setter I spend a lot more time walking gated logging roads, and skidders, while the dog works the cover. The only time I go into the cover is when he's on point. This allows me to cover a lot of ground.

Anyway, no matter what you decide, take the time to properly train, and let the dog develope, and you will have a great time.