Retriever training.
 

I have always trained my own retrievers but have run into a problem that I haven't yet figured out. Any help will be appreciated. She is 14 months old and loves to retrieve dummies and anything I ask her to until a couple weeks ago. She then started going after the birds like always and then pouncing on the bird and digging at them so vigorously that she tears them apart with her claws. She does this with fresh killed birds, dead birds or frozen ones and does not pick them up. She is still very enthusiastic about dummies or going out to the birds. She has not been worked on anything except dummies, pigeons and ducks.

RE: Retriever training.
 

Is she FF (Force Fetched)?

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RE: .
 

DocE, no she is not force fetched. She is a soft Chessie and I have been reluctant to put too much pressure on her. If I must do it I guess I will but I was hoping I could get by without that. Is it a must in your opinion?

RE: .
 

I would f/f just because it makes delivery to hand so much easier especially when a water retieve is involved. This would also give you a handle to get her to pick the bird up. How have you disciplined her when she is acting like this? What happened just before she started doing this.
How badly does she sulk when you discipline her? Could this activity be a result of something she didn't like and is she retaliating?

Dr Fatguy

RE: .
 

FF allows a dog to work well "under pressure". That's what FF is all about (MUCH more than just a nice delivery).

RE: Retriever training.
 

DocE,
We look at FF differently. I FF to get a proper delivery. This is the reason. The benefit is I get a dog which can handle pressure better. By the time I force break a pup, the dog realizes he has to sit until I say OK (my release command), he has to come when called, and he has to kennel when told to. These basic commands are ingrained so the dog looses the ability to say no. This makes FF'ing much easier. I'll bet you do the same. These can come with pressure. When I put a dog on a board and say sit, pull on the check cord until he moves, and then chastize the dog (with electricity or voice) until he is back on the board, this pressure prepares him for FF'ing. The dog learns he has to do it or there are consequences. The same is true with FF'ing. The dog learns to pick up and deliver to hand on command. The pressure tells the dog what the consequences (I'll pinch your ear until you do it). I think we are saying the same thing from a differing perspective. If I remember correctly your labs point (why, I just don't understand, but I don't have to), whoa training would be similar to the sit training I do. When I train a dog to whoa, I put him on the tail-gate of my pickup, every(!!!!!!!!!!) time he moves a foot I swat it. Expectations and consequences teach the dog what is expected. If the dog has experienced consequences throughout the training program, FF'ing is easier. I will admit after the FF'ing is complete, the dog behaves much better.

Dr Fatguy

RE: Retriever training.
 

drfatguy,
is it just personal prefrance that you Ear Pinch instead of toepinch?

RE: Retriever training.
 

Mnfowlplay,
I ear pinch because I learned to do it that way. It's a habit. I FF a dog every 3-4 years so I can't justify some concrete monstrocity in my wife's back yard (that's right she owns the back yard). I use my PU's tailgate ora picnic table. I don't have the timing to toe hitch, if I get a refusal in the field the ear pinch is more convinent than the toe hitch. I learned to FF from an old bird dog field trialer. He ear pinched so I do now. My son helped FF a Jagdterrier he and I were training so he Ear Pinches now.

Dr Fatguy

RE: Retriever training.
 

yeah same with me...i learned to toe pinch/hitch and thats how i do it. I guess its what you learned and what you feel comfortable with.

MNfowlplay

RE: Retriever training.
 

Also, if you need to make a correction in the Field, you can do so with ear pinch ------- but not toe hitch.

RE: Retriever training.
 

The reson we (myself, and the dog trainer i work for) FF is to Cure Hardmouth, eating Birds AND ensuring retrieval to hand. But Doc E had a point when he said it teaches them to work under pressure. Doc E when i am in the field i always have the E collar and that is what i use.

MNfowlplay

RE: Retriever training.
 

FF is about MUCH MORE than "good mouth habits" (which it's great for). It's about the dog learning to work under pressure. The dog learns that he does things NOT ONLY because he likes to, but because it's his job. FF is the foundation for much more advanced training as well.
It provides momentum, it teaches the dog that it has a job, it gives the dog good mouth habits, it enhances all other training that involves "pressure", and it makes a good retriever into a great retriever.

RE: Retriever training.
 

Great Points Doc E, I agree

RE: Retriever training.
 

Since my last post I think I have cured my little Chessie. Every morning after they have had their morning run and before the heat has begun to build. I have been planting a couple of frozen pigeons for her then getting her from the kennel. When I have sent her (the last 3 mornings) she has gone out found the pigeon and delivered it to hand perfectly. This morning she did the same with a clipped pigeon. Tomorrow morning I will be using a frozen duck. Sometimes when I'm training it seems like a light comes on and both of us learn something. I believe it was when I threw the first frozen pigeon and she went for it and began digging at it I just yelled her name and said "NO". I then went out picked it up again tossed it and when I said fetch she picked it up and brought it to me. Thanks to everyone for their input on my problem.

RE: Retriever training.
 

Dr Gildy,
I strongly suggest FF her. It will give you a handle on the dog you do not have now. Right now she is retrieving for her and you. Notice who is first in the equation. After you FF she will retrieve for you. The difference is suble but you will have a better and more confident retriever. I used to course (hunting game with sight hounds) when I live in the West. I had greyhounds. I told a training buddy I was sure a greyhound could put pheasants in the bag, one thing led to another and we bet dinner for the two of us and our wives, I had 6 weeks to get ready. I had already shot pigeons over one of my dogs so I was sure I could do it. I was expecting a 6 weeks force breaking session, she was so soft I had it done in 2.5. I couln't believe it. I assure you, you Ches is tougher than the greyhound and springer spaniel I force broke. Don't let her set protocol or standards of retrieving. Teach her to retrieve for you. This will pay huge dividends when it comes time to teach her multiple marks and blinds (which she should be getting ready to do at her age). By the way I won the bet.

Dr Fatguy