Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

I have heard a lot of people talk about "running dogs" while deer hunting in Virginia. I have a ligitimate gripe....

THEY FOULED UP MY BOW HUNT THIS PAST SATURDAY! [:@][:@]

I was in my tree, and hearing deer moving around and (so I assume) coming to my doe bleats and scent bombs. I was hopefully working that big 8 pointer that I missed the shot on too.

Everything was working great and I was quiet, still, and enjoying the sunrise and early morning hunt when out of nowhere, I hear the loud baying sound, "Bowoooowwwooww" of coon hounds or some kind of deer hunting hound dogs! They were up over on the other big trail and probably scaring everything away for miles! [:@] I was hoping they'd bump a deer over to me, but it didn't happen that way.

Afterwards, the woods became dead silent. And I didn't see anything or hear anything except tree rats for the rest of the morning!!! [:@]

Butch A.

RE: Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

Butch.... Well I am hoping that it was not deer hounds since it is illegal to hutn deer with ohunds in VA until the general firearms season. It is also illegal to use them on most if not all the public oands in VA that I know of as well. The dogs you heard might have been turkey dogs someone was useing.

If not then I feel your pain. I have hunted with and probably will hunt deer with dogs again. I dont make it a everyday practice however on a doe day espically towards the end of the season when everything is in hiding it can be productive and fun. I do feel that there are a number of groups that engage in using dogs in a illegal manner, I however feel that there are far greater numbers who do it legally.

I find myself leaning more toward the use of bird dogs when I am hunting with dogs... they sight chase and they ony run a few hundred yards before returning to where they jumped at to continue the drive. NO running around spending hours looking for dogs. I do however like the sound of a set of beagles in a good chase but most of the time I will go rabbit hunting to get that fix LOL

I guess my point is that while it sucks sometimes dont draw a bad eye toward it due to the acts of some....

I have been in your shoes recently... it was the second week of bow season this year. I was had just climbed up a tree with my new summit and was letting the woods get back to normal. I was on lucky enough to be in the woods on a job site we were working on at the time... I was left with 2 and a half hours until dark... prime time... well about 45 minutes of legal shooting light left and I hear these two beagles cold trailing way off in the distance.... well in a matter of 10 minutes they go right by my stand at 20 yards.. barking every 20 yards.... so I figure damn... my evening is shot.... I started to get down but figured I would sit there until dark just for giggles....Well at the end of legal shooting time I was packing up and had everything packed and was getting ready to lower my bow when I caught movement.. well I watched 3 of the biggest bucks I have seen in the woods work toward me. Well I could not see my sight on my bow so all I could do was watch them as they fed toward and around me.. I ended up staying in my stand a good hour past dark watching and listening to them feed around me.. I even had one of them straight under my stand eating... I had to look through the bottom part of my stand to see him

SO it goes to show you that that does not always mean the end to a day of hunting.. I have seen deer plenty of times later in the day after dogs have gone though...

As far as the two beagles they belong to a older fellow down the road and he lets the run loose all year... he isnt to happy they are devolping the property I was on as he has hunted it for years and still hunts all around it... I disagree with letting hunting dogs run loose all the time but thats just me.



p.s. are you going to be taking up Dave (vasavage) on his offer???

RE: Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

Hey Eng....

Yeah, now that I think back on it, it was probably rabbit hunters with beagles (in season) or like you said, it was turkey hunters with dogs (also in season). It was just weird having the quiet morning disrupted with the baying sounds "Bowwwoowww" of the hound dogs. Everything was probably spooked for a country mile after that! [:@]

Regarding Dave's offer: I have been looking for a great place in Cumberland that is big enough for a bunch of us to do a big hunt together. The problem is that I see, is that you either have piece of Cumberland SF, or you have a private hunt club. The two butt up next to each other in some areas. Reggie (bowhuntr09) also hunts in Cumberland from time to time, so he might be able to lend a hand finding a great spot for all of us.

Butch A.

RE: Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

I no longer deer hunt with dogs, it became impossible to lease enough land to contain the hunt. I honestly had rather hear a good race with some good blueticks and black and tans than to kill a deer. Call me crazy, but I guarantee there are a lot of nuts like myself.

RE: Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

Well once this Saturday gets here the woods will really be stirred up. I can care less sometimes if people hunt with dogs or not, but there are times it can make you down right pissed!!! [:@]

The redneck hunt club that hunts next to my land uses dogs, they disturb the woods more than anything, and the fools apparently can't shoot too well, last year they had shot over 25 times and then the dogs ran six deer right by me, you cant tell me those dogs were running 31 deer :D one shot bagged me some meat for the freezer thanks to their dogs. so it has its advantages and disadvantages.

I know some states don't allow you to use dogs right? it's a shame Virginia isn't like that

RE: Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

Hey y'all. Good to be part of the forum. Figured I'd go on and weigh in on this topic. I've lived and hunted in VA all my life. My experience with dogs and deer hunting has always been negative. It may work out for the group running the dogs, but a lot of people use the dogs as an excuse to trespass and run all over everyone elses land. If you happen to see them they act real nice and claim to "just be looking for their dogs." It really puts a hurting on the still hunter.

There's nothing worse than taking vacation from work to hunt, getting up at 4:00 AM, driving a half hour or more to your hunting spot, hiking in and setting up your treestand in the dark, and then as soon as the sun peeks over the horizon you've got 3 beagles running all around your area barking like crazy, pissing on the tree your in, and ruining your whole day. When you finally give up you pack up to leave only to run into the dogs owners at the road asking if you've seen his dogs and if he can drive down and look for them. What nerve! It happens all the time. My most recent example of this behavior is when I went for the special hunt in the Dismal Swamp this year. It's a National Wildlife Refuge so you can't run dogs in it. But guess what? There's a hunt club that borders it right across the canal. They let the dogs all loose on their side and point them into the refuge to run the deer out and onto their side. The Ranger told me since they didn't let the dogs loose from inside the refuge they aren't actually violating the law.........................just screwing up everyone elses hunting.

Also, hunt clubs tend to run dogs every Saturday. After a couple weeks, the deer get wise and seem to only start moving at night. You see lots of deer sign, but no deer. If you hunt during the week there's nothing moving, and if you hunt Saturday you got dogs running all over. A lose-lose situation.

I've known number of people who's policy is "If the dog's on my land it's a dead dog." Personally I like dogs and realize it's not their fault but rather the unethical practices of their owners. Unfortunately, however, I can see how someone could eventually see no other way to solve the problem.

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents on the topic.

RE: Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

i know what you mean about dogs in the woods i hunt western nc and the first day of bear season there were no vehicles in the area i hunt so i went to my stand about an hour before sunrise (its about a 2 miles from where i park) 30 mins after sunrise here came the dog hunters and jumped a bear about 200 yrds from my stand. this type of action gives all dog hunters a bad name since they walked right past me and just looked up and smiled when they came back after the dogs lost the bear i told them that if i saw the bear being run by the dogs it was mine they did not like the idea of someone shooting a bear in front of their dogs. i just told them tuff luck. i know that there are dog hunters that hunt with respect to other hunters but idiots like this a bad

RE: Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

hey butch, if you want to get some people together and need some dogs to hunt with let me know, i too am from richmond and hunt in a private club, but always looking for more people to hunt with and let them listen to the dogs run . good luck Jason

RE: Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

Thanks....

Maybe it's just me, but I like the quiet, solitude, and peacefulness of the woods. Running dogs is probably a long tradition in Virginia, but it just strikes me as odd, that's all.

I took Tuesday afternoon off work (and Wednesday too), and hunted Amelia WMA on Tuesday PM for a change of pace. Now I know why I hate Amelia.... I watched a couple (elderly folks) with three white terriers walking down the trail, and what totally flipped me out was
THEY WERE TALKING REALLY LOUD AND CLAPPING THEIR HANDS TO THE DOGS AND CALLING THEM BACK AND SO ON!!!!!

Thank you very much.... [:@][:@][:@][:@] My afternoon hunt in Amelia WMA was officially ruined for the day.... That just totally flipped me out.... They knew I was there. I mean, they saw my truck and some other dude's truck on the other side. WTF?!?!?!?

On the other hand, I hunted back at Cumberland SF yesterday and tried a new spot overlooking a huge, freshly mowed down/clear cutted field. Nice area. Heard rumblings in the woods, but nothing came close or came out towards the field. It's a perfect spot for rifle season too.

Butch A.

RE: Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

hey butch,
have you ever been involved in a deer dog drive? you might actually enjoy it, maybe so maybe not. and when i mean a deer drive. I don't mean hunting out of a truck. Don't get me wrong I also love to still hunt. but usually only do so way earlier in the morning in the evening unless its black powder then i go all day. In the middle of the day why not get the deer moving a little so you'll see more the evening. but good hunting

RE: Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

Butch, I know what you mean. Can't tell you how many hunts have been ruined by someone's dogs. What pisses me off the most is having them run the dogs before firearms deer season starts, to "warm up the dogs" And the worst part is sometimes they will run the dogs on public land where I hunt so they don't stir up the deer on the private land they plan to hunt later. I can't even formulate the words to discribe what I think of that.
All I can say is if it's a doe day or a day that you expect them to be running dogs, either hunt really far from where they will be, or set up an ambush that will use their dogs to push the deer to you. I did that last year and scored on a button during rifle season. They pushed the deer right to me. The guys running the dogs were ok with it and one of them even helped me pick up the blood trail after I lost it for a bit. Deer wasn't far, but the brush was thick. You never know. it might work. IT's not that majestic scene where you have stalked or patterned the deer for weeks/months and then you cleany take him with one stealthy arrow or rifle shot, but it's meat in the freezer and that ain't bad.

David

RE: Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

HMMMMMM!!! If patience is a virtue and deerdogva has enough to hunt all day with a muzzleloader... what transforms him during modern gun. WARNING: THIS MAN MAY HAVE RABIES EVIDENCED BY BEHAVIORAL PATTERNS SUBJECT TO CHANGE FOR NO GOOD REASON!!!

DEERDOGVA- I'm just messing with ya but seriuosly if you do hunt with a muzzleloader all day don't you feel bad about ruining someones moderngun by running a bunch of dogs around em all day?

RE: Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

Well actually, not really, because most of the time when i'm running dogs there aren't many guys out there with bow and arrow. Thats why they have bow season a month earlier then general arms and muzzleloader season. it gives a chance for the guys to bow hunt with out any dogs around. and yes i do love to muzzleloader hunt. Most of the guys that do still hunt around it, love that we run dogs because they run the deer right to them. I mean think about if you own ten acres on the outside of a large parcel of a 1000 acres. which one do you think has more deer. So must of the time it works in advantage of the still hunter. every once in 100 hunts those dogs will go over to the ten acres jump a deer and it'll run back to them. So reality your winning every 99 out of hundred times? i mean i can truely understand if someone didn't want dogs on their property and if they didn't i would start at property line do a man drive along the edge of the two properties away from there property and then line that side up very well so when running dogs we wouldn't let the dogs ever get on their property. now i'm sure there would be a few exceptions but thats part of hunting. i would do everything in my power to try not to. but with our club its not about killing deer , it listening to the dogs, i would much rather take a friend with me and let him listen to some dogs run, then shoot a litlte buck or even a doe, i'd pass the shot up just to let the dogs keep going. Now i can see if you would get pissed off if you own 200 acres and a guy with 5 acres drops dogs on your property and surrounds your property. thats not the same dog hunting i'm talking about. That is wrong, but how we do it , there nothing wrong with it. I do wish the enforce NO ROAD HUNTING MORE. i to have some land and have had people with dogs throw dogs in road hunt it. So for those road hunters no i don't believe in that but i do belive in a deer dog chase. i hope i answered your question roost? i mean and even though i do muzzleloader hunt i don't hunt fields. I think shooting a deer over 50 yards anywhere takes no skill. it dosn't give the deer a fair chance but there another topic i'll save for later.

RE: Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

Well not really. You addressed the situation but confused modern gun with bow I think. maybe there should be a dog season and a modern gun.
I don't know what to think about the no skill comment at the end of your post. Running dogs takes a lot of precision skill I'm sure. Do you shoot the exhausted, meat filled with blood deer with a Muzzleloader? How does it taste?

RE: Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

Good point, Roost 'em....

I would prefer a very calm, relaxed, deer any day of the week! I guess I just like the solitude of bowhunting when it's just you and a deer in a one-on-one situation. Sneaking into a deer livingroom undetected is the ultimate challenge from the very start.

I've had two deer opportunities so far this season.

Oct 6th: Little teeny tiny yearling doe walked within 25 yards of my stand. Cute little thing didn't even know I was there. Could I have taken her? Sure thing.... But she was all of about 60 pounds - if that. I chose to let her pass on by and test my patience and ability to stay quiet.

Oct 30th: Opening smokepole season. I don't own one, so I still bowhunted. I was in my favorite tree when someone was walking on the dirt road way down below my trail. They jumped a monster 8 pointer somehow, and it snuck up through the brush up over the trail by me and came to a stop directly behind me. I totally freaked out and tried to get a shot from 20 yards with my bow and missed! [:-][&o]

Now imagine being in a tree stand, re-living these two different events but yet have people out there running dogs at the same time. The quietness of the woods wouldn't exist. The deer wouldn't be peacefully walking around. They'd be jumpy, jittery, and running amok.

Butch A.

RE: Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

i'm sorry roost i did miss interrupt your question. but to answer your question , think about it for a minute. if we didn't have dog hunting, people would find something other way to make the woods unpieceful. You would still have hunters doing man drives blowing air horns through the woods. all kind of things to get the deer moving a little bit.
Private land is the only group that would really benifit from no dogs. but you would still have those clubs that are going to run dogs no matter what and i don't mean deer dogs. you get rid of deer dogs , they'll be having fox hunts or rabbits hunts or whatever the circumstances may be.the deer are more scared and jump more and less pieceful when general arms comes out. but thats not the only reason the other reason is because there are people in the woods. if you didn't have dog season you would have more people in the woods during blackpowder seaon and bow, which means that the deer might be scared anyways and people would start having man drives during black powder and during bow. So i think its better how it is now, where you know you'll have peace during bow and blackpowder or at least hope to. If you get rid of those you might not even have piece then. but what i was saying about towards the end of my last message is that alot guys hunt with rifles and even when black powder hunting and they'll shoot a deer 200 or 300 yards away. i don't feel that right but in alot of counties thats the only way they kill deer. But to get my point across i think everyone has their style of hunting. I like how the state has it set up right as far as season. However i do wish they would be harder on people that ROADHUNT. I love to dog hunt but I don't like ROADHUNTERS. its a little different if there is a guy standing out on the road waiting for the dogs just to catch the dogs. thats fine have no problem with that. but when they have the gun stretched out over the hood. thats never no good. but to what you were saying butch about sneaking up on deer. sneaking up on deer is alot easier to sneak up during general arms. They stay put longer, during black powder if i get with 50 yards while i'm walking usually they'll jump up. but during dog season deer tend not to jump up is quick and you can get closer before they move. because there is so much noise in the woods. Alot of times will still hunt during the week during general arms because we don't have enough people to let dogs out. I've walked up on many nice deer and sat almost right beside them and they wouldn't move till the were ready to move. but like i said i think its a personal choice what you like better. i like listening to the dogs run its a natural sound.... but that just my 3 cents sorry for being so long. any responses?

RE: Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

Listen i haven't lived in VA for 12 Autumns but what I remember about the land I hunted was that it was peaceful. Yes the OLD DOMINION fox hounds would cut through property but they published a schedule of where they were hunting that covered their entire season. All you had to do was avoid that spot where they were on any TUE THUR or SAT to enjoy a peaceful hunt in the woods. I don't know why you wouldn't want to wait your DOG SEASON until December when the rut slows. Probably wouldn't piss off as many hunters. You said yourself its about hearing the dogs whats it matter if you wait another month to do it?:eek:

RE: Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

but if you didn't have deer dogs then you would have a bunch of trashy fox dog hunters, so either way it won't work. those guys are going to be lazy and hunt any way they could and don't think for one minute that if there is a deer and front of those fox dogs then they wouldn't shoot it. So whatever you take from them there going to find some way to make it bad on you. So think about it, neither one of us have seen how it would be with out dog hunters, i think things would change but for the worst some people already don't like hunters if we start turning on each other too mcuh we won't get to hunt at all.
i agree with you to an extent about changing thing up a little . but then you would only get one month a year to run deer dogs? what would be the use having them keeping a dogs caged all up for one month a year? although most deer are killed with muzzleloaders or during the rut, maybe they should extend bow an extra two weeks. and then have two weeks of muzzleloader and then start dog hunting or better yet move the all hunting back two weeks. that way the bow hunters would get some of the early rut with no muzzleloader and then guys with muzzleloader would get a good portion of the rut and If you didn't start hunting dogs till december then have a month in like march just for that month have a chase only. i don't think there should be a general arm season though without dogs. because what can't you do with a black powder that you can do with a rifle? The only thing that i can think of is shoot 300 hundred yards and reload quick. which both don't give the deer a chance. I think the best solution is you can only hunt with shotguns when deer dog hunting and no road hunting and ENFORCE IT !!! that is the key. So what you think is it a good idea or do you still feel we need a general arms season with no dogs. heck iw ould even say extend black powder an extra week before general arms and cut one week off general arm season but not a whole month but if you take away time to hunt then we should get at least a chase only season . so what ya think ????

RE: Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

How about if they make a new rule about certain days you can hunt with dogs (just like you have doe days)? I don't know... It's a thought that just came to me.

I was at Cumberland on Saturday and did two styles of hunting. In the AM, I used my Remington 870 12GA with 00 Buck and carefully, quietly, walked, and stalked on a nice out of the way trail. That came to an end though, when I was met by someone's hound dog. Cute little thing... Jumped on my leg, wanted to be petted, etc... Tag on the collar said "CH-7" with someone's last name and a phone number. I tried to shoo the dog away to rejoin the pack, but it kept hanging around with me. So, I just let things be and quietly walked the trail with this person's dog! Once I doubled back around and got back to my truck, the dog still wouldn't leave. I carefully had to get in my truck and not hit the dog while I left. Where were all the other dogs? Where was the hunter/owner? What, do they just open up the crates and dump the dogs out to them run wherever they want? :eek:

Anyway, I also did a nice afternoon hunt with my Marlin 30-30 in my treestand (yes you can rifle hunt in Cumberland - but you MUST be minimum 10 feet elevated above ground). I was in a nice spot (my #2 location) overlooking a big field. I heard dogs barking and bellowing all over the place. All over the ridges and hillsides, in the valleys, all over the place! I was all nice and comfortable in my Summit Viper, Marlin 30-30 laying crosswise across the bar, and I was just chillin' and enjoying the outdoors and the hunting experience. All of the sudden, I hear crashing in the woods about 50 yards diagonally from me, and see this big doe going Mach IV through the woods, briefly into the field and back into the woods, with a big pack of dogs on her tail. There was no way in hell I could get a shot off, because she was going like a horse in full gallop. I was in a nice ambush spot, so I stayed put. Not 45 minutes - 1 hour later, I hear another pack of dogs from another direction. Sure enough, here's another smaller doe at top speed, crashing through the brush, with a pack dogs on her heels too! Again, I couldn't get a shot off, because it was like trying to skeet shoot with a 30-30! I'm sorry, man, but maybe I just don't get it... WTF, you know?!?[:@] What is the purpose of running dogs after a deer making the deer run and run and and run and run until it can't run anymore? I want a deer to be drawn to my doe bleats and my Tinks #69 scent bomb, not be running by at 80 mph!

Check out my hunting log and you'll see my success rate (not!) so far.... [:-]

http://members.aol.com/ammonc/Hunting-log.html

I am going to take off Tuesday so it will be more quiet and I can go back out again and hopefully get something when it's more peaceful and quiet.

Butch A.

RE: Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

hey butch,
sorry you had a bad experience with the dog hunting. But did you get excited when you heard the dogs getting closer and closer? I didn't think you could shoot a doe this past saturday anyways. but like i said with dog hunting its about listening to the dogs run not always killing deer. but you just have to enjoy it i guess..... but if your hunting public land i would suggest hunting during the week or bring a shotgun, because most likely they'll have dogs running on it. sometimes when there running like that it you wistle or blow your bleat they will stop unless they have dogs right on them. but good luck sorry you had another bad experience.

RE: Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

True.... I just double checked. NEXT WEEK is a doe day. Good thing I didn't try to take a shot and score! Oops.... [:-]

But anyways, did I get excited when I heard dogs getting closer and closer? My honest opinion? Seriously? I'm sorry man, but I was getting a little annoyed. I was like, "Dogs? again?!!?" :eek: My quiet hunt with just me, the woods, and hopefully that big 8 pointer that I missed on, was once again ruined. It's cool that people go hunting with dogs and stuff. I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. It's just not my style, I guess...

Good luck too!

Butch A.

RE: Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

hey butch,
those dogs might have saved ya a ticket so sometimes there good for something;)

but ya i think it just something you have to enjoy, its better when your in an organized dog hunt, but that just my opinion. but good luck.

RE: Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

Speaking of organized deerdogva I wanted to clue you in on the foxhunters I refered to. They are an organized hunt that hunt fox on horseback. They run foxhounds and any dogs that chase deer are pulled from the pack. These foxhunters kill 3 or 4 fox a season collectively. Members do not kill the fox rather an employee of the hunt does. To call one of these foxhunters "trashy" is inaccurate. Sounds like you know some other type of Foxhunters.

RE: Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

Hey roost,
I don't think you got what i was saying. I know the fox hunters that come through now come through on horse back usually don't kill many fox because its all about the chase. but what i'm saying is, is the guys that have deer dogs now, that are ruining it for other deer dogs people would be the problem. If you take away deer dogs, i'd say 80 percent of the guys that have deer dogs would switch over to fox dogs. So therefore you would have dogs still running through the woods during gun season , maybe before because fox hunting chase season is open year round. So instead of having fox dogs ran with by horse and real nice and organize you would have a some trashy fox dogs hunter. I think no matter what you do u will still have those a** whole that will try to ruin it. I mean every hunting groups has there bad crowd. i Know alot of still hunters that sit in on there back of there truck and shoot a dear 500 yards away. That NOT Hunting wether you running dogs or not. Did you get what i'm saying now? take away deer dogs = more fox dogs . so would you rather have fox dogs year round or deer dogs for two months? but i do wish the would outlaw using rifle while dog hunting and no road hunting.

RE: Virginia hunting with dogs!?!?
 

I see. I agree with the shotgun only and I believe I like the idea about designated days for dogs.