Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

I seem to find myself in conversations about the changes that are believed to be coming in ark. deer rules. The AG&F has been having meetings to get input on poor deer seasons.
I have heard they are thinking of shortening the season ,reducing the bag limits to two deer statewide,no oct muzzle loader season.
Folks say they are not seeing any deer . say we have killed off our breeding stock by killing does.
I still say yes we have had some poor seasons. well poor deer kills for two years should increase our population . i think deer are moving nocturnal, food has been very plentiful so they do not have move in the daylight, rutting activity has been at night for the most part or in very thick areas. i think if they do this in three years at the most, our population will be way out of control.
But thats just my opinion , how about you other ark. hunters? heard any of these things?

SOUTH ARKANSAS REBEL

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

Yup I have heard the same thing. Have you noticed all the juicy acorns in the woods this year, and the lack of rainfall to sour them? Why would they come out if they have all the food that they want. They dont have to move to get food, just raise their head and the grub is right there. I personally dont know what the deer see in acorns, they taste like crap. But anyway, it will be interesting to see what they come up with. I hunt in Hempstead Co. about 3 miles north of Old Washington. We have a bad problem with coyotes. Time to get out the coyote gear, I think we are gonna thin them out sometime soon.

Why am I sittin here on this stupid PC when I could be huntin'

[Deleted]
 

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RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

I was beginning to wonder if we had any arkansas folks here anymore. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Well froman is always lurking around.
I am thinking like arbowhntr lots of food keeps them off roads and out of fields. and i too don't like the taste of acorns.
I think they do need to look at areas. i saw 50 deer off one stand in one morning this year. all but two does and the others were scrub bucks. saw big rubs like i had never seen before but didnt see deer that would match the rub. except one 17&quot; 7 pt , good mass and he's dead.
i really think when we have another bad acorn crop year some big mouth folks that have been complaining about seeing no deer are gonna be over run. i hope the suckers eat all their shrubs in their yards!
They are there in those nice timber industry thickets.
But hudge i too see them reducing doe limits(mistake i think). i wish they would cut a week off the long season and give it to us in jan. modern gun. i think that would be nice . i like hunting late in the season. deer move when the novice deer hunters go home cause they are cold and &quot;burnt out&quot;. i love it! we'll see i guess. we are the mercy of the AG&F dummys.

SOUTH ARKANSAS REBEL

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

Well cant think of anything to say right now, but Im still here.

Why am I sittin here on this stupid PC when I could be huntin'

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

I think seeing deer is kinda like fishing. Good days and bad. I was fortunate enough to fill my tags this year hunting in Drew Co. Arkansas. I live in N.E. Arkansas and vist a friend that lives close to the Missouri bootheel, and he sees does in herds there. I myself counted twelve does about a month ago crossing a pasture. Last year we counted thirty six deer in one soybean field and eleven of those were bucks. While hunting in S.E. Arkansas I found that the deer were moving heavily at night. Each day I would clear tracks in muddy spots around my stand and the next day it would look like a herd had been through during the night. When the hunting pressure is on, deer will move to the thickets and come out at night to roam around and feed. They seem to modify their habits to avoid being seen.

&quot;Fast is fine, but accurate is final&quot;. &quot;Wild Bill&quot; Hickok - 1869

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

ARbowHtr,

Dude, I envy you. I grew up hunting the same area you now hunt. My grandparents still live in Fulton and we hunted Old Washington Road near Turkey Creek and Bridge Creek. We hunted Mr Antleys bean fields also. Man that was some good hunting.

As for the rules, I don't know if I have an opinion on them yet. I tend to trust the decisions of the AG&F but their recent moves have left me scratching my head.

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

I agree with you mr4pt. It jsut seems too soon for them to be conjuring up this idea. I think they should do a lot more research on this. The season wasnt even over and they were saying that the deer population is down? I just think that they shoulddo a lot more research, I am sure they will before they do anything drastic. Hopefully they will not get the &quot;All knowing&quot; legislature involved.

Why am I sittin here on this stupid PC when I could be huntin'

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

if they shorten anything, I think it should be gun season!
for Gods sake, the bowhunters are not the ones hurtin the
deer population. and I do beleive the population is down.
when I first heard the deer were stayin in a particular area
because of the abundance of acorns, it made since. but, if that's
the case, then why are hunters seein fewer deer durin the rut.
ya'll know that the deer are gonna move about durin the rut.

I beleive the reason for fewer deer, is the rediculos bag limit
on doe. 4 doe per season is just too many doe. it was ok for a few years, to even out the doe to buck ratio, but, now we are killin
to many doe. it takes a doe to make a buck, and bucks are what we
all want to see more of.

I don't mind givin up Feb bow season for deer, but I think they should keep bow season open through feb for turkey.

I think they should shorten gun by 2 weeks, and muzzel loadin season
by 1 week. we all know it's the guns that take the majority of
the deer each year. I'd rather see em make a 6 point or better rule
than cut our buck limit down to 1 buck.

who do we write to give our opinions? I mean, who from the commision?

I hope to God, they don't shorten bow season except maybe for Feb.
what do ya'll think?

Ward Burton-- Daytona 500 winner--
go Cat-22

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

Bogobble how many gun hunters hunt the last two weeks really? i hunted every weekend dureing the season and heard very few shots the last two weeks. i saw huters but they were either hard core or just getting to go.
I don't believe the bag limits are the reason at least in my area. our camp has two thousand acres and even with the doe limit we only killed about five. and havent killed very many for years.
Now there are some that show up and hunt gov't land and do take a doe cause they just want a deer. but i don't think it is that many.
I think like deerslayer444 they have adjusted to move at night. deer are adaptable creatures and i think they have . in my grandfathers day they ran dogs and kept them stirred up. they killed lots of bucks. you know very few were chasing does just keeping away from the dogs.
but if the AG&F is going to cut gun and muzzleloader then by all means bows to.
lets have a year or two of limited season and see how the popualtion really is. i was told that la had the same issue years back. they did shorten there season and adjusted the bag limits. guy said they paid for that with a explosion in the deer population. season was then made longer than ever and bag limits increased.
I don't know what the answer is . i just know some of the ones that have complained around me couldnt find a deer if it pi**ed on them. and they are the ones complaining .my 12 y/o tagged out this year and took two bucks and two does. i guess he might have killed the last of the breeding stock!<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

SOUTH ARKANSAS REBEL

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

The one buck limit is tough, it's hard to get motivated to go out after you have killed a buck and hunt for a doe. Our gun season is a week shorter than yours down south so I can't really blame that.

I hunt private land. We have managed it for bucks the last few years and it shows. I used to be able to go there and see 25 deer per day but lucky if I saw one buck, and then it was usually a small one. A few years ago we slaughtered the does, shot every one we were able to. Now the ratio is right but we don't see near the deer we used to, when we do the chances are that it is gonna be a good buck.

When we (Arkansas) went to the 3 pt rule and then a few years later we opened season on does we were in effect trying to manage the ENTIRE state for trophy deer. I don't know if it works statewide. So the question we must ask ourselves is do we want to see a deer behind every tree or do we want the chance to kill a trophy buck every year?

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

well, if season length is not the problem, then leave gun and bow season the same. cut the doe limit down to 2 , but leave the buck limit the same.
one buck ain't didly for such a long season!
I'm wonderin if the deer haven't gone nocturnal also. that would certainly explain the fewer deer sightings. I'm still bowhuntin, and I'm seein more deer sign, than I've seen since season started. especially tracks. so, I'm not so sure anymore, that there are actually fewer deer.

do any of you guys have game cameras? if everbody that owned a game camera, would put them to use now, that might give us an idea on how many deer are actually movin at night. I don't have one, but if I did I'd sure be usin it.

with all the tracks I'm seein, there has got to be a lot of deer on our lease. I'm not seein any in the late evenins, and very few in the mornins. my F-I-L says 4 or 5 deer can make a lot of tracks, which is true, but I'm seein different size tracks, so it's not just the same 4 or 5 deer makin all those tracks.

mr4pt, I'd lots rather see a good buck, than see a deer behind ever tree<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> that's why I was glad to see them make the 3 points on one side rule, and also allow 4 doe. but, I'm not so sure the doe limit shouldn't be cut back to 2 instead of 4 now.

If the deer have gone nocturnal, (which game cameras could tell us for sure) then, we just have to figure out how to make em want to move durin daylight hours.<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

Ward Burton-- Daytona 500 winner--
go Cat-22

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

Now your talking bogobble. that is my personal bag limit anyway.
i talked to my nieghbor ,hunting club that is, and they had a good year to . killed like 16 in all . now this is only 5 hunters on about 900 acres. one 6 pt with a 20&quot; inside spread heavy mass , long tines. one 9 with drop tines 16&quot; spread. and the rest were eights smaller 14&quot; or so. thats not bad for south arkansas. i can remeber in ouachita county if you killed one 14 &quot; 8 pt you were doing good. in the whole camp that is.
I'm hoping to get to go stay a weekend at the camp. i intend on getting out at night and looking. i bet i see eyes everywhere. this time of the year they congregate and feed in our pastures late in the evening. watch that also.
I don't know the answer but reducing days just hurts those that can only hunt weekends.

SOUTH ARKANSAS REBEL

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

Maybe since they have gone nocturnal, we could legalize spotlitin', or let us use night vision scopes? THat would make it interesting. I have said all that I want to on this topic for now :)



Why am I sittin here on this stupid PC when I could be huntin'

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

One other thing. ya'll know as well as I do, that there are bunches of deer that are not registered. for instance- a hunter shoots what he thinks is a doe, but turns out to be a spike with 2 or 3&quot; spikes. he don't want to use one of his buck tags, so he either don't register it, or he registers it as a doe.
there are a lot of deer that are not registered, for one reason or another, which tends to make the agfc think there's fewer deer.
so, they say we have to shorten season and or, reduce the bag limit.

remember, thats what happened when they closed the turkey season for 9 years. there were no turkeys being registered, which the agfc beleived the turkey population was down, so they closed it. simply because of the greedy hunters that wanted to kill more than their legal limit!<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>

I'm afraid the same thing is gonna happen to deer season if those same greedy hunters, don't start registering their deer!<img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>

Ward Burton-- Daytona 500 winner--
go Cat-22

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

bogobble being from just up the road in ouachita county and knowing those up there . i must say you made a valid point!
Now i don't reside in ouachita county any longer . economy and all ! i live over in the spa city area now! became a hill billy!

SOUTH ARKANSAS REBEL

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

soarkrebel-- I give up- where is the Spa city area?

Ward Burton-- Daytona 500 winner--
go Cat-22

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

reb, how ya doing?? This year was alittle weird, some days looked like a petting zoo under the feeder, some days not a deer. One thing I can say I ain't saw, and that was the Rut!!

I have noticed less deer on the road the last 2 years, but I'm seeing the same or more in the woods.

ZIIIIPPPPP--PAP

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

bogobble you really need to get out of union county sometimes?<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Hot springs ring a bell? you know the bath house spas?

i live about five minutes from lake ouachita.

6 mag i think it was a good year . when deer have food in the woods they don't eat on the road sides. they also don't have to roam as much to find food. food sources should be getting scarce now and they will be moving to find food. also late summer they feed on road sides cause of lack of food in the woods.
emerson good to you this year????

SOUTH ARKANSAS REBEL

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

The only way it could have gotten better was if they would have run elect. to my stand!!!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

ZIIIIPPPPP--PAP

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

G-Dawg stand by and scratches head besides mr4pt......
personally my season stunk, but i still saw deer.. better than not seeing any!

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

I hope they make some changes. We have forage as good as anywhere in the U.S. and half the deer. Deer numbers all over the northern half of Arkansas are way down. There are still pockets with good populations but the permit hunts are really telling the tale. These areas with 0 hunting pressure are producing pitiful kill numbers. Kill numbers last year were down 37,000 from the year before and there is no telling how many less have been killes this year than last. I wish they would cut the number of bucks to 1 buck with 4pts on one side. If you kill a button buck you are through for the year! Limit us to 2 does. Shorten the bowseason to end around the middle of January and cut the gun season down to 10 days everywhere in the state. I would like to see our numbers rivals those of Mississippi. I would like to be able to go and see 10 deer a day and it not be the same 10 deer.

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

4 points on one side???? Get real. Its hard enough for my kids to harvest their first buck being 3 points on one side let alone 4. I think the major reason the sighting of deer are down is feeders. They are making the deer nocturnal.But 4 points on one side is not the answer.Unless you make that your second buck.

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

silentassassin you have my deepest sympathy for your lack of seeing deer.
i may see 10 just trying to get to my stand!!!
50 does in about three hours is what i saw this year!! not a buck in the bunch!
1 buck ! no way! i don' t mind the 4 pt rule for me but like hawgz said it' s hard for kids to harvest a buck.

Deer numbers that rival mississippi! and when do we start taking care of the starving deer? the diseased deer?
I would much rather have a smaller healthy herd than a large one with unhealthy deer. what is the carrying capicity of northern arkansas?
Just a few years ago south arkansas was near it. folks in south arkansas say they didnt see any deer. geez they need to stop hunting in there camps and get in the woods!
I see these folks that lease land and try and hunt it weekends . they see no deer and there isnt any!
a week ago i was on my leases , two days after a rain. tracks everywhere! logging roads were like cowtrails. my oats were gone! they are hungry now!
in the fall we had great acorn crops. and like hawgz said feeding plays a role but not as much as timber cutting does.
when they cut timber it allow light to get to the ground and stimulate growth of food. these food sources are alot of times in unhuntable areas. these areas are deer bedding areas also . the deer can eat , sleep and breed without us ever bothering them.

i believe this to be true. but the hunters of arkansas are going to influence the AG&F to change the reg' s . they probably will and remember in a few years when the food sources are weak and the deer have to compete for food how many are seen. the same hunters that are screaming now will scream to kill off some does!

Years ago when we had doe days they screamed. and we got a increase of does in our limit. now how many camps really hurt the doe population?
mine didnt ! my nieghbors havent. now maybe yahoos that come and hunt gov' t land that just want to kill a deer did!

Now i don' t hunt north arkansas maybe your right about the numbers this would explain why the north arkansas yahoos always show up in south arkansas to hunt. and i do hope north arkansas deer numbers come up cause i may just come be a south arkansas yahoo hunting north arkansas deer!

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

I being from the N E section of the state can say we have plenty of deer.Like reb said the ones not seeing any around here need to walk a little more. I could and did see deer everytime out this year. Can barely remember how many does and young bucks that I let walk. We are going to bitch and moan ourselves into a year that we dont want. BTW I did hunt down South this year and let all your deer walk:D It was just to hot to shoot a deer a drive all the way back home with it.( Sounded good at the time);)

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

my brother on his way home from work took a detour by his former lease.in a trip of about 15 miles he saw over 100 deer. i agree s. arkansas has close to the same numbers we' ve had for the past 10-12 years. they have changed their patterns and if you dont change with them u lose out

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

Then try letting them shoot does instead. I don' t think we should go to that for ever but I do think we need to limit the number of bucks that are being harvested so more of them are around to breed the does that don' t get bred the first go around. It won' t hurt you or your kids to go a couple of years without out shooting a scrub.

soark

That makes you an exception and not the rule. If you look you will find that deer numbers are down all over the state including the south part of the state. I have several relatives and friends that hunt all over south AR and all of them are complaining of the lack of deer there also.

As far as the Mississippi comments go well they are just incorrect. Mississippi doesn' t have starving or diseased deer. They have a healthy and abounding deer population. North east AR could easily sustain twice the population that we currently have. I am glad you have deer o' plenty on your leases but that simply isn' t the case for most Arkansans.

So you guys think feeders are responsible for hunters killing 50,000 less deer this year than 2 years ago? If that is the case and they are just going nocturnal how come you don' t see them at night crossing roads or summer before hunting season or you can' t get half as many on trail cam as you did a few years ago?

Apparently, the AGFC agrees with me. The preliminary opinion is that the season is going to be shortened and the limit is going to cut.

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

Shoot does instead? Thats what most the guys are complaining about. To much does being killed. I have heard rumors that they are thinking about shooting down zone 3. Why? Our deer numbers are not that low in AR. Everyone thinks they should be behind every tree. Next thing you know we will have CWD all over the state. I am all for better and bigger bucks in AR, but we are and never well be a state like ILL or TX. I see no reason why my kids have to shot a doe instead of a 6 point because you or G&FC thinks it is not a trophy animal. And from what I been hearing is that the guys in the Northern part of the state want the doe harvest down. So we go to no shooting does and only 4 points on one side what do we have? Just a day in the woods with nothing to bring home for the freezer.Now I have nothing against the trophy hunters but when G&FC makes it so hard for me and my kids to hunt they can kiss my butt and I' ll take my money and hunt out of state. JMO BTW SA what part of the state you at? Our game cams can back up what I say about the feeders. 5 days it was out around 1 feeder it took up all 28 pics plus more and all and I mean all were bucks but 2. Not the same bucks but 12 points down 5 points and 1 button and they only 2 seen during the daytime was the button and 5 and I let them walk.

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

silentassassin i don' t think i am the exception or the rule. i just hunted. i know some who complained the loudest spend more time playing poker and drinking at the camp than hunting.
they expect deer to just come on by when they are on the stand. for there hour!
now this is not all just alot i have heard in my presence. they are the one' s that complained when the three point rule came in cause they couldnt get there meat on the first spike they saw. you know you can' t eat those horns type folks?
you tell them as bucks mature they become more and more nocturnal and much harder to kill. and they say we ain' t got no bucks.
you ask them why? and the response is something like cause we been killing the mommas! give us a break!

only about 10% of hunters kill a buck anyway.

i see lots of deer in the summer ,not just on my lease' s . i could take you this afternoon and we could sit and probably see 40 to 50 or more before dark.

one of the loudest complainers i know has a 2500 acre hunting club with about 45 members! weeks before the season yahoos run his woods with wheelers and all season they do this. why are they not seeing any deer ? this same guy pays money to hunt with me. but i have 2000acres and 16 members . i have rules and if you have bad habits .you gone!
he kills his deer and turkeys on my lease' s!my nieghbors all kill good deer and see lots! as a matter of fact they killed better bucks this year then we did. i am going to have to study how this happened.

The AG&F ?? boy i am impressed that they feel the same as you!! i have never had any faith in that organization.
These people are idiots! take a little lake called bragg lake in ouachita county. people kept telling them about a gator in the lake. those idiots said there are not any alligators in ouachita county. well after lots of dogs become food for a 12 ft gator and some pictures were taken they became believers. ok they catch the gator and decide to move him to a lake that belonged to the ag&f oh about 15 miles away. well they ,the biologist , didnt realize the big male gator would do his best to get to his females. he was hit by cars walking down a us highway!
he did a number on a few. it my friends tow truck to get him out of the highway.

now if your ever in ouachita county and are near bragg lake just read the gator warning signs!

Doesnt mississippi have higher bag limits than us? la? al? ga?
It really doesnt bother me what the boneheads do . i will have my deer meat for the year.

in closing i don' t think it' s fair to really compare north ar to south ar. and the ag&f comm. shouldnt either.
but what do i know i just live in the woods and don' t have a BS in bio. from UALR and live in the suburbs of west LR. i don' t know anything about whitetail deer of south arkansas.


Hawgz you should have taken a big fat doe. they eat gooooooood!
the does were fatter than i have ever seen them this year. my boy shot one and i swear it had 1/2 " of fat covering the tenderloins. your knife just got that coating of fat on it. i had to boil the thing to get the fat off.
i don' t have a camtraker . i have been thinking about one.
i would like to have pictures of some of the bucks i have seen in the summer to show folks in the fall. i mean they disappear in the fall so i may as well have a picture to study.

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

soarkreb If you ever get a chance at getting a cam get it. It is almost has fun has hunting. We got a pic of a big 10 pionter and found the left shed this year.Havent found the other side yet. We take pics year round so we can get a good ideal of what we have. We only have about 700 acres but the pics we get are unreal. I have always that our buck to doe ratio was way out until we got our cam.Seems to be alot better that I thought. I mean out of 28 pics we alot of bucks ( at night) and alot were big. We hunt near Dalton this area is hunted hard by locals and road hunters and dogs are everywhere.I know what you mean about the 4 wheelers. The only time we use ours is to fill feeders or get a deer other than that we walk. Its doesnt take a deer any deer long to figure out whats going on with all the road traffic a nd people traffic to start moving at night. Do I think the deer population is down ? Naw but I do think they are adapting to their enviroment. Its not hard to figure us out. Its hard hunting own our lease with all thats going on around us but the deer are there.

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

What county is dalton in? i never heard of dalton.

we have seen some monsters at night. a couple in daylight hours but they don' t show them selves with all the cover they have.
we have one that was seen last year by a guy that has killed some huge deer in texas and kansas. huge! never seen again.
They are very smart as the years go by. i think they just stay to cover. very seldom will they come out and usually it' s for a doe . i think with a lower buck /doe ratio they will move more. but with all the whining i think our ratios are going to be out whack worse!

RE: Change in Ark. deer rules?
 

Dalton is in Randolph county. Yeah I hate to see it but I think its going to get worse before it gets better. I dont know what the best thing is but not 4 pionts on 1 side.I' ve seen big sixes thats all they well ever be.And I would hate to think I couldnt harvest it. I bow hunt more than anything so I could live with the Feb season being out. But whats fair? Limit muzzle loaders ? Rifles? You have guys that only muzzle load hunt and only rifle hunt. maybe some zones need to go to shotgun only.Its worked pretty good here in Greene county. Plenty of mature bucks here, if you have a place to hunt um. Whatever they come up with is going to piss some of us off anyways. But I still think deer numbers are not down.