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-   -   Eastern Coyotes vs Western Coyotes (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/small-game-predator-trapping/407092-eastern-coyotes-vs-western-coyotes.html)

jayatnight 06-15-2016 12:29 PM

Eastern Coyotes vs Western Coyotes
 
Does anyone feel like these are almost complete different beast.. I watch utube clip of out west and you see dogs running in full speed(maybe its just the fact of vantage point for better videos??)..and I am sure wind is much more of a factor in the west...(Also not saying coyote hunting out west is easier by any means..)

Here in North Georgia yes you do get that rarely for me anyways.. but I feel they usually come right to the edge and just sit and wait.. then either come 5 yrd closer then sit again or just try to run thru the woods to wind you or just leave.. unless you day scout for their trails across fields but they usually run hedge rolls and what not here.. Just what I have experienced so far.. I feel like bait piles in the future for me... to maybe try to get them farther out in the fields..

Not saying by any means I am 100% correct... would just like to hear others opinion on this topic....

maybe The land can't support nearly as dense a population as what you have back east. Whereas in KY/IN/OH/GA you can easily support 1 cow per acre, here it is more like 30 to 100 acres per cow. That kind of pressure on the ecosystem is why you see predators running to a distress animal call here, they are hungry, and the food sources are widely scattered. Another reason they run in, they are trying to beat the competition to that meal.

Nomercy448 06-15-2016 09:53 PM

A guy has to hunt coyotes differently in different terrain. More cover and more topography means the coyotes will approach differently than they will in less cover. I really don't think it's anything more than that. If you find open spaces in the east or west, the dogs will respond to the same set design. If you find closed in or hilly terrain in east or west, the dogs will respond the same.

Hunting pressure and human presence based on geography is another factor, but in the same conditions, longitude and latitude is irrelevant. You're just more likely to find a certain condition out east than you would out west, and vice versa.

jayatnight 06-16-2016 04:09 AM

So in other words us dumb humans.. are giving these creatures too much credit Lol... To make us not look dumb =P

MudderChuck 06-16-2016 06:17 AM

I usually don't go out Yote hunting, most times it is for a specific pack or individual. They often do get into a routine.

I have the best luck switching up my tactics.

Out west it is often water, which can be a tiny seep. Water is often scarce.

The border between two packs territory, there is often what I call the poop wars, I mean piles of the stuff in one spot.

Find a seep, make a brush pile nearby, throw Corn into the brush pile. Mice and Rabbits will show up. Yotes will show up. In fact after they have caught some meals there, they will return again and again.

When the farmers mow the fields for silage, those mowers kill a lot of Mice. Yotes will show up. The can smell that smorgasbord from a long way off.

Later in the Summer, early Fall the younguns are out hunting with the adults. The young ones make more mistakes.

Dens are used for generations. Maybe not every year, but many years. And there is often a second den close by to move too when the first choice gets flea infested. You get a feel after awhile where the dens are likely to be. Most often someplace with good drainage, reasonably dry.

I often just sit in a good spot with a wide view and just study the terrain. Most times you can pick out the likely paths, the places they visit often. I've had poor luck trying to out sneak them, but have out thought them. They tend to use the farm roads in the early morning and avoid the tall dew covered grass. Not a rule just tendency.

I've set up a ground blind right out in the open, near a frequently used farm or forestry road and had them walk very near. I spot the tracks after a rain, tracks coming and going are a tip off they use this way often.

Out West many of the Yotes seem to have longer legs, same with the Bobcats, they have to cover more territory.

National geographic survey topo maps often show any signs of water and show the tiny seeps. You have to look close, but they are often there. The topo maps often show seeps that are dry most of the year.

mrbb 06-16-2016 10:41 AM

I agree all animals that live in different terrains, react differently and live differently

I wouldn;t say there any dumber or smarter, they just adapt based on there danger levels
where they have more room to roam and a lot less pressure, and also, due to less FOOD< they tend to just commit more aggressively than eastern one's IMO
Eastern Coyotes have a more dangers to avoid, more contact with humans and easier meals, there home ranges are not so barren, and a wider range of things they can eat

its the same animal, but different
I say this a lot even with there deer

I like to think of wilderness area bears and rural living bears as being this way too
the same critter,m but they view everything differently and should be treated differently and hunted differently!

Oldtimr 06-16-2016 11:00 AM

Actually there is a difference between eastern and western coyotes, while the scientists have not separated the two by scientific name, blood DNA tests on eastern coyotes has shown that they are interbred with wolves, which is why they are for the most part larger than their western cousins. I hail from PA and we also have had coyotes in our state since the late 40s or early 50s in certain areas of the state. Now we have them in all areas including Philadelphia.

Below is just one publication on the subject, there are many. This is from CT DNR.

Coyote
Background
Coyotes were not originally found in Connecticut, but have extended their range eastward during the last 100 years from the western plains and midwestern United States, through Canada and into the northeastern and mid-Atlantic states. Coyotes were first reported in Connecticut in the mid-1950s. For the next 10 years, most coyote reports were from northwestern Connecticut. Coyotes eventually expanded their range throughout the entire state and are now a part of Connecticut’s ecosystem. The coyote is one wildlife species that has adapted to human-disturbed environments and can thrive in close proximity to populated areas.

Range
Originally an inhabitant of the western plains of the United States, the coyote now occurs from Alaska south into Central America and east from the Atlantic Provinces to the southeastern United States.

Description
A typical coyote resembles a small, lanky German shepherd, but several characteristics distinguish it from a dog. Coyotes tend to be more slender and have wide, pointed ears; a long, tapered muzzle; yellow eyes; slender legs; small feet; and a straight, bushy tail which is carried low to the ground. The pelage (fur) is usually a grizzled-gray color with a cream-colored or white underside, but coloration is variable with individuals having blonde, reddish, and charcoal coat colors. Coat color does not vary between the sexes. Most coyotes have dark hairs over the back and a black-tipped tail, which has a black spot near its base covering a distinctive scent gland. However, not all coyotes have the black markings.

The eastern coyote is larger than its western counterpart. Most adults are about 48-60 inches long from nose to tail and weigh between 30 to 50 pounds, with males typically weighing more than females.

Habitat and Diet
Coyotes are opportunistic and use a variety of habitats, including developed areas like wooded suburbs, parks, beaches, and office parks. Their ability to survive and take advantage of food sources found in and around these “man-made” habitats has resulted in an increase in coyote sightings and related conflicts. A coyote’s diet consists predominantly of mice, woodchucks, squirrels, rabbits, deer, some fruits, carrion, and when available, garbage. Some coyotes will also prey on small livestock, poultry, and small pets. In Connecticut, unsupervised pets, particularly outdoor cats and small dogs (less than 25 pounds) are vulnerable to coyote attacks.

Life History
Coyotes are monogamous. The male and female usually maintain pair bonds for several years. In Connecticut, the breeding season is from January to March, and the gestation period is about 63 days. Although adults can dig their own dens, they often enlarge an abandoned woodchuck or fox burrow. Pups are born in spring (April to mid-May), and litters range in size from 1 to as many as 12 pups; the average in Connecticut is 7. Both adults care for the young and will readily move them if disturbed. Pups are weaned at about 6 to 8 weeks and begin foraging and hunting with the adults when they are 8 to 13 weeks old.

The family group usually breaks up in fall or early winter when the young disperse. Young coyotes may travel long distances in search of new territories, giving this species a rapid potential for colonization. Although nearly full grown by their ninth month, eastern coyotes may not breed until they are nearly 2 years old.

Interesting Facts
Eastern coyotes are generally larger in size than their western counterparts. Recent genetic research has attributed the eastern coyote's larger size to interbreeding with Canadian gray wolves.

Coyotes are biologically able to reproduce with domestic dogs, although because of several barriers, they rarely do. For instance, both male and female coyotes are fertile for only a short time during the year. Also, young coydogs rarely survive because male domestic dogs that breed with female coyotes do not remain with her to assist with parental care. The offspring of a coyote/domestic dog mating are often infertile.

Coyotes use a variety of vocalizations to communicate with one another. Howls, yelps, and high-pitched cries are best known, but they also bark, growl, wail, and squeal. Family groups yelping in unison can create the illusion of a dozen or more performing together. Coyotes are most often heard around dawn and dusk. However, they may respond to sirens and fire whistles at any time of day or night.

A coyote’s social unit consists of the adult pair and their young; they may be encountered singly, in pairs, or in groups of three or more. Mated pairs maintain territories which are scent-marked and defended against other coyotes as well as foxes.

A coyote's sense of hearing, sight, and smell are well developed.

Coyotes normally run as fast as 25 to 30 miles an hour, but can run 35 to 40 miles an hour when pursued. They are also strong swimmers.

Living with Coyotes
As coyotes have become more common, public concerns about coyotes attacking pets and people, especially children, have increased. Although some coyotes may exhibit bold behavior near people, the risk of a coyote attacking a person is extremely low. This risk can increase if coyotes are intentionally fed and then learn to associate people with food.

Coyotes will attack and kill pets, especially cats and small dogs (less than 25 pounds). The best way to protect pets is to not allow them to run free. Cats should be kept indoors, particularly at night, and small dogs should be on a leash and under close supervision at all times. The installation of a kennel or coyote-proof fencing is a long-term solution for protecting pets. In addition, homeowners should eliminate other sources of attraction to coyotes including pet food left outdoors, table scraps on compost piles, and decaying fruit below fruit trees.

Coyotes will attack a variety of livestock but sheep and fowl are at greatest risk. Coyotes pose very little danger to horses and cattle. The probability of a coyote attack can be reduced by penning susceptible livestock and poultry at night. Some fences effectively exclude coyotes but require careful maintenance. Guard dogs have been used successfully to reduce coyote depredation. The removal and proper disposal of dead poultry or livestock is highly recommended as a preventive measure. Carrion left in the open may attract coyotes and bring them into close and more frequent contact with live animals. Livestock owners may use trapping or shooting to remove coyotes that have attacked their animal stock.

Coyotes seen near homes or in residential areas rarely threaten human safety. Coyotes are abundant across North America, yet only a very small number of attacks on humans have ever been reported. Like many animals, coyotes can grow accustomed to buildings and human activity.

NEVER feed coyotes! DO NOT place food out for any mammals. Homeowners should eliminate any food sources that may be attractive to coyotes. Clean up bird seed below feeders, pet foods, and fallen fruit. Secure garbage and compost in animal-proof containers.

You can attempt to frighten away coyotes by making loud noises (shouting, air horn, or banging pots and pans) and acting aggressively (e.g., waving your arms, throwing sticks, spraying with a garden hose). Homeowners should realize that if they live near suitable habitat, fencing may be the only method to completely eliminate coyotes from travelling near homes. In rare cases, efforts to remove coyotes may be justified.

Coyotes are most active at night but may be active during daylight hours, particularly during the young-rearing period and longer days of summer. Daytime activity alone is not indicative of rabies. Coyotes appear to have low susceptibility to the “raccoon” or mid-Atlantic strain of rabies found in Connecticut. Coyotes are susceptible to strains of rabies that occur elsewhere in North America and to the other common canine diseases, such as canine distemper. Sarcoptic mange, a parasitic disease, can affect large numbers of coyotes, particularly when the population is dense and the chance of transmission is high. In Connecticut, many are also killed on roadways by automobiles.

It is legal to trap and hunt coyotes in Connecticut. Hunters and trappers are required to follow strict laws and regulations. Hunters and trappers are required to report and tag coyote pelts before they are sold, tanned, or mounted. There are special provisions for using land sets to trap coyotes on private land from December 1 through January 31. For more information on coyote hunting and trapping seasons, consult the Connecticut Hunting and Trapping Guide.

Nomercy448 06-16-2016 11:34 AM

The hybrid eastern coyotes referred to in the Connecticut guide don't range as far south as Jay is hunting.

And for what it's worth - calling the north eastern coy wolf hybrids, or even straight up pure bred wolves, really isn't so different than calling coyotes, in terms of set up, nor is hunting fox either. They use the terrain and cover the same way. Watch a domesticated dog travel in the country and you'll see the same patterns. They do seem to come into sets differently between species, Wolves are a little more brazen, fox come in and out a little more speedy, but largely calling canine predators has been very similar for me in every state and country in which I have hunted them. The terrain makes the difference, which is only partially driven by zip code. Hills in Maine hunt the same as hills in Texas, woods in North Carolina hunt the same as woods in Minnesota, open flats in Kansas hunt the same as open flats in Arizona...

It is, however, a very different feeling the first time you see a wolf in the crosshairs when you're used to coyotes. It's a shame the hunting seasons are so variable in the states, and equally that Canada doesn't allow hunting with handguns.

Oldtimr 06-16-2016 11:51 AM

I only posted because Jay asked the question if they are different critters. I don't know where he lives or where he hunts. I just thought it would be interesting to people who didn't know there is a genetic difference in some populations.

Ridge Runner 06-16-2016 02:38 PM

I know this, a big western is 35-38 pounds will bring 75-100 bucks on the market, a big eastern is 60-70 pounds and is worth 15. there has to be a difference.
RR

salukipv1 06-16-2016 04:38 PM

I know I read something that said eastern coyotes tend to have more wolf dna in them... and are more of a hybrid than western which are more pure coyote.

From what I've observed eastern are bigger/stockier, and I have seen them run together, not sure you'd call it a pack, which is a wolf quality where out west I believe they tend to be solo almost all the time.

MudderChuck 06-16-2016 07:32 PM


Originally Posted by salukipv1 (Post 4262112)
I know I read something that said eastern coyotes tend to have more wolf dna in them... and are more of a hybrid than western which are more pure coyote.

From what I've observed eastern are bigger/stockier, and I have seen them run together, not sure you'd call it a pack, which is a wolf quality where out west I believe they tend to be solo almost all the time.

In the arid areas out west they are often in family groups, but spread out and mostly hunt as singles, pickings are slim. The exception is in the fall, often the driest time of the year. they will pack together. I've seen 6-10 individuals together staging raids into suburban areas. You hear stories about them killing full sized Dogs. I don't know why they pack together in the Fall, best guess is their normal prey dies off from lack of water and food, they pack together to attack larger game, kind of a do or die type of thing. Or maybe the older Yotes teaching the youguns how to hunt. maybe both.

The county kept Sheep in an enclosure around a brush fire water pond behind our property, the Sheep kept the grass down. The Yotes would regularly pack together and kill the sheep. Seemed worse when the Sheep were birthing and in the Fall. They eventually put a half wild Jack Burro in with the Sheep, that sucker hated Yotes and was as good as a guard dog. I'd hear a real ruckus on occasion, the Burro braying, the Yotes yapping, a for real get down a dirty fight.

Seems to me many of the Yotes in the South West are lankier, thinner and have longer legs, same with Bobcats.

jayatnight 06-17-2016 04:38 AM

I agree with Mudd.. All my coyotes seem lankier than western pictures... But here in North Ga.. they tend to hunt solo.. while the pack sits back in the woods waiting for word to come running.. Many times I will shoot one then the rest of the pack scatter thru out the woods.. even if I sat and called for 30 mins with that one studying the situations.. the rest were at least 100 yrds farther back.. and I have seen this happen a few times..

MudderChuck 06-17-2016 05:48 AM


Originally Posted by jayatnight (Post 4262150)
I agree with Mudd.. All my coyotes seem lankier than western pictures... But here in North Ga.. they tend to hunt solo.. while the pack sits back in the woods waiting for word to come running.. Many times I will shoot one then the rest of the pack scatter thru out the woods.. even if I sat and called for 30 mins with that one studying the situations.. the rest were at least 100 yrds farther back.. and I have seen this happen a few times..

Maybe some of the differences is North and South. In hotter climates they tend to be lankier and have less fur? Seems logical, the ones built to deal with the heat do better. While the generally milder climates farther North they can afford a little more fat and fur? Likely different hunting strategies, due to the availability and types of game.

I know one thing for a fact Desert Yotes and those in the coastal mountains and northern California sure look different. In fact on opposite sides of the valley I lived in they looked different. One side was forest and the other side chaparral (high brush).

Likely what makes then so successful is they are adaptable.

I've noticed the same thing with Hogs, some are braver (more foolish) than others. The ones that live to an old age are the wary ones. The adolescents tend to take more chances, cut more corners and are often the first to die.

I've hunted Yotes using ambush tactics after scouting their territory extensively. I've used calls, which only seemed to work at night for my Yotes and was mostly a shotgun type hunting. I had a pack of Yote dogs for years, which was the most successful way to hunt them. Well fed and conditioned Dogs can outlast a Yote, Yotes may be quicker in the short term, but eventually run out of gas.

My most successful call was first a few Hawk calls then a wounded Rabbit call, which screams to a Yote there is a free meal here. I've listened to others calling, IMO they tend to overdo it. A distressed Rabbit call in nature is usually over with in way less than minute, often less than 30 seconds. The Yotes hear the Rabbit screaming, come running to the general area and then follow their nose. If there are any Yotes around they will usually come in to check it out. The thing about a Yotes nose is; my general rule is when they get closer than 400 yards they likely know you are around. A lot of luck involved if you get one to come closer than that.

A lot of animals key on their rivals, a lot of Bird action and a Fox will come it to check out and see what is so interesting to the Birds. The Birds spook and the Yote or Fox takes off for safer territory. The reason I use a Hawk call then a wounded Rabbit call, the Yote or Fox has likely been there done that and stolen a meal from anther predator, If a Hawk calls it is often to it's mate saying supper here. Just something you may want to try out.

jayatnight 06-17-2016 01:43 PM

I really like the hawk into wounded rabbit.. going to have to try that out.. Some times I will do a male howl.. then a pup in distress it tends to work...

MudderChuck 06-17-2016 07:23 PM

I've been wondering what a noisy Chicken (some are noisier than others) or even a Guinea Fowl in a wire cage out in the middle of a field might attract.

I've talked to numerous hobby farmers who tried to raise Guinea Fowl and all them were wiped out by Fox. Guinea are noisy and likely attract a lot of interest. Guinea roost in the trees, but nest on the ground. They are also stupid.

I get more than a few calls a year from Chicken or Duck Farmers asking me for Fox help. The Fox will keep coming back until the Farmer is wiped out.

I've been thinking of trying it out, curiosity. Whatever works for Fox will likely work for Yotes.

alleyyooper 06-18-2016 03:41 AM

Here in Michigan the coyotes don't come running like I have seen in the western states videos. I believe that is do to how they seem to range here about 25 sq. miles and a well stocked food supply, rabbits mice and small deer and fawns, small family pets and farm critters. We usally see them in groups of 4. I believe pups stay close to the parents till the next mating season. but that is just my thoughts.
Yes they will attack a horse in a group.
http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/inde...orse_from.html
And again on the same farm.
http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/inde...at_oaklan.html


We don't really have a wild pig population, pig are not raised on the farm as loose as beef cattle.
We have great luck with the piglet in distress sound, the chicken and dog from Varmint AL's web site is also a good one even in the middle of the winter. Distressed wood pecker also works.
We seem to have good luck with odd sounds, I believe part is coursity and part is other people are not using them. We will many times also run two callers together one with the fawn in distress sound till mid summer and the group howls. Of course there are other sounds we use together also.


Was a rare thing to sight a coyote in Lower Michigan till about the late 1970's but wasn't a rare thing to see on in the Upper any time.


:D Al

Sheridan 06-19-2016 09:03 AM


Originally Posted by Nomercy448 (Post 4262009)
A guy has to hunt coyotes differently in different terrain. More cover and more topography means the coyotes will approach differently than they will in less cover. I really don't think it's anything more than that. If you find open spaces in the east or west, the dogs will respond to the same set design. If you find closed in or hilly terrain in east or west, the dogs will respond the same.

Hunting pressure and human presence based on geography is another factor, but in the same conditions, longitude and latitude is irrelevant. You're just more likely to find a certain condition out east than you would out west, and vice versa.

+1

Remember we kill the dumb ones/the ones that make a mistake.

Everyday "we" learn what we did wrong too - but we get to go home at the end of the day.............................

jayatnight 06-19-2016 03:29 PM


Originally Posted by Sheridan (Post 4262334)
+1

Remember we kill the dumb ones/the ones that make a mistake.

Everyday "we" learn what we did wrong too - but we get to go home at the end of the day.............................


Thats starting to be my problem I have ran out of dumb ones lol..

Mr. Longbeard 06-20-2016 02:51 AM

Everything is harder to hunt in the eastern us... Why??? More hunting pressure... More people... Look at the turkeys out west...

Why do you think everybody goes to Midwest ,Texas to hunt and make outdoor tv... If they did it here there wouldn't be anybody watching tv lol

jayatnight 06-20-2016 04:08 AM

Ya but I enjoy the Challenge!!! harder to find good sets and when you do they tend to pay off well..

my problem is june to so hot and humid in Georgia.. that you cant move without stinking everything up for miles.. only 2 coyotes in june so far.. plus there is like 10 million baby cotton tails out..

I saw a couple last night about 400+ yrds off...

they seemed like they have already fed.. cause they showed very lil interest in my call..

MudderChuck 06-20-2016 06:24 AM

Maybe you should try changing up tactics. I always ask myself, who, what, where, when, and why (then maybe how many). I try to figure out what they are doing and why.

I had my best luck calling early in the evening, early night, they are beginning the hunt and hungry.

I had my best luck ambush hunting early morning, after the hunt and they are heading back to the den. This time of year they likely have a den and pups to feed. They tend to head home in a fairly straight line.

There are no real rules, just tendencies. I've also caught them coming from the den in the early morning, best guess is because they had slim pickings the night before and are going out for a second hunt before it gets too hot. They likely have a family to feed. Never tried it, but calling and hour or so after sunrise might get one of those late hunters.

I'm not nearly as canny as I make myself out to be. I remember sitting in one spot on and off for a couple of weeks. I'd seen Yotes off in the distance to my left and heard them in the thickets to my right. Took me a couple of weeks to notice a narrow path right next to a barbed wire fence line overgrown with grass (maybe a couple of hundred yards off). That is how they were getting from my left to my right. Slapped forehead here and called myself a dumbass. The very next morning I set up on that path and popped an old Yote with no tail. I have no idea where his tail went, funny looking Yote.

Been my experience after a successful hunt and/or it gets to late to hunt (suns up) they often tend to make a bee line back to the Den in the late spring/early summer.

When they first start hunting in the early evening they tend to visit their favorite hunting hot spots first. Their travels seem erratic, but often predictable in a broad sort of way.

Like I said there are no real rules just tendencies, about the time you think you have it figured out, one will pop up real close coming from a completely unexpected direction.

About time now for the first Hay cut (depending on the rainfall). I've had really good luck setting up near a freshly cut field. Two reasons, the cut grass makes hunting Mice much easier for the Yotes and the mower kills a lot of Mice and saves all the work of hunting them. Cut grass makes a pretty good background for night hunting. full Moon right now.

Something else I've noticed is their Den is often close to a good food supply. I Mean real close like 50-100 yards from a field that often full of Rabbits or a Pond where the Ducks nest. They often use those Dens for generations.

Sheridan 06-22-2016 08:52 AM


Originally Posted by jayatnight (Post 4262391)
Ya but I enjoy the Challenge!!! harder to find good sets and when you do they tend to pay off well..

my problem is june to so hot and humid in Georgia.. that you cant move without stinking everything up for miles.. only 2 coyotes in june so far.. plus there is like 10 million baby cotton tails out..

I saw a couple last night about 400+ yrds off...

they seemed like they have already fed.. cause they showed very lil interest in my call..


One thing I have learned; if you see them regularly "off in the distance"......................you need to move and set-up over there (maybe another day).

Same concept with duck hunting - you need to be where the ducks want to be.

Good luck - don't educate them, until you are "ready" to kill them !!!

jayatnight 06-23-2016 02:12 PM


Originally Posted by Sheridan (Post 4262671)
One thing I have learned; if you see them regularly "off in the distance"......................you need to move and set-up over there (maybe another day).

Same concept with duck hunting - you need to be where the ducks want to be.

Good luck - don't educate them, until you are "ready" to kill them !!!

I feel the same way.. I let them walk often and just sit and watch... when they way off... my thermal scope just cant handle it..

better to let hem walk then train them like you said..

I also do that when I see a large group next time I come to those sets I try to set up good around that area... I pretty much hunt from the bed of my truck..

MudderChuck 06-23-2016 09:09 PM

I made a ground blind out of PVC pipe, each panel fits in the bed of my pickup. Made it along the lines of a Guillie suit instead of using camouflage cloth, the panels aren't even completely covered, just enough to break up my outline, no top just the sides. I used batches of synthetic type material that dries fast, some bundles of string, shredded cloth etc, and some of that fishnet you can buy for patio decorations. Cable ties to hold the whole works together. Sometimes I add some dried grass or small branches.

Best results are early morning when the dew is settling, damps down your scent some. A light rain is even better.

I've set up right out in the middle of a road, in a table flat field and had Fox walk to within 30 yards of me.

Just a guess but I think they get used to looking for danger in the bushes, the trees or where ever and setting up in an unexpected spot sometimes fools them. I've had it work for both Fox and Hogs, they don't seem to expect danger in a flat open field. Likely to also work for Yotes.

I have a back pack that is also a folding stool. The panels are less than thirty pounds (best guess 7 pounds each). I can carry the whole works in one trip for a reasonable distance. And set up in ten minutes or less.

You just have to be silent and sit still, if they don't scent you or hear you or see you they can get really close. Whether they scent you or not is mostly just luck.

The top PVC pipe of each panel has a wood dowel inside of the tube, makes it more rigid.

Be aware of where your bullet is going if it passes all the way through. Shooting at ground level has it downsides.

jayatnight 07-02-2016 05:29 PM

hell that should work just fine.... This is how I hunt.." />

at night of course... i still wear a gilly suit while sitting up there... but they dont really seem to mind.. when they are 200 yrds off..

MudderChuck 07-02-2016 08:32 PM

A buddy and myself (I weld) made up something similar in a 3/4 ton open trailer. Took us awhile to get all the squeaks out. Hogs have really good ears, the tiniest unnatural sound and they disappear.

Worked out well after we got the bugs worked out. We set up near a field the Hogs had been raiding. And leave the trailer there for days or a week or until the hogs have moved on. The trick to quiet it down is trailer jacks at four corner to take some of the weight off of the springs, indoor outdoor carpet and grease.

The law here is no shooting from a motorized vehicle. Some states you have to be fifty feet from a vehicle. The reason we use trailers.

I got really good at stopping my truck, bailing out and shooting with both feet on the ground. I've nailed a lot of Fox that way. I also surprised a dope dealer who was harassing one of my girls with that move, surprised the heck out of him. Like a fast draw, it just takes practice. He found me standing behind the bed and rear tire aiming over my pickup bed, before he could get his pistol out of his man purse. Looking down the barrel of that twelve gauge he found Jesus (or Allah), I guess it sobered him up, as far as I know he has been flying straight ever since.

jayatnight 07-03-2016 03:05 AM

well as u can see in that pic i have like a half inch piece of rubber foam... but like you said it was still lil to squeaky.. I am also a welder... But I made another.. and this this is what im using now... much more solid... I have since cut the legs and made it alil lower felt to high up..

Ya I have done the same with my 870 12 gauge on foxes.. just jump out and throw it up and boom.. I even called in a grey fox while moving in the truck lol.. I guess you could say he was gonna make it very long anyways being that dumb.. but greys here will come darting right past the truck.... red tend to like to stay 100 yrd out for me.. usually how I can tell what im hunting..

I also drilled some holes where I could put cotton balls in to spray cover scents on.. even tho many ppl think its a waste for coyotes.. I still use skunk cover.. It seem to work for me...

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MudderChuck 07-03-2016 08:25 AM

Fox and Yotes, the dumb ones are the first to go. Then things can get really interesting. We got a mandate from the county to thin out the Fox as much as possible because they were carrying some super nasty parasite.

The darned (surviving) Fox would hear my exhaust tone from a mile away and head for the hills. Then I got really sneaky until they caught onto that. I finally had to switch areas and let things settle down some.

I don't worry much about scent, I always figure whatever I try is unlikely to help much. My dog once popped up from a sound sleep and went to point in the back seat of my Jeep, a Fox at four hundred yards. I always figure Yotes and Fox can scent nearly as well as my hound can. I do wash myself with unscented soap and I'm careful not to use scented or whiter and brighter laundry detergent on my hunting clothes. I hang my hunting clothes outside.

I learned something about reflected light in the military. It may look OK to you, but may actually glow for wildlife. We had optics that let you see farther into the IR and UV light spectrum and you could see what some of the animals see. It stuck with me into the way I think while hunting. Camouflage doesn't mean much if it glows in the dark. I think it is more the motion that spooks them and the reflective clothing (they see) makes it easier for them to see the motion.

I've had some success with Nuoc Mam as a cover scent. I use it sometimes in places with a swirling wind. The trick is to spread some around a week or two before you hunt that spot. Nuoc Mam smells like a Tijuana brothel, really nasty stuff. I've had no trouble finding it in a small town in the middle of Germany, should be common in most any oriental mom and pop store. If you do try Nuoc Mam treat it like toxic waste, I spilled some in the back of my Jeep, stank for months. Side note, I saw the biggest Buck I'd seen in decades sniffing a bush I had sprinkled with Nuoc Mam. I don't know if it was curiosity or it reminded him of a brothel also. :)

jayatnight 07-03-2016 12:28 PM

Ya I have read alot about uv... I put all gully suit and hunting clothes in a big duck bag i have thats waterproof... and spray them down with uv block and no scent...

I am with you also that they can smell ya anyways.. but I feel it still does not hurt..

with all the fumes from the truck plus all the smell from a truck plus skunk and me..

maybe it might confuse their nose.. idk.. I am pissing in the wind here... just sometime I do...

I have tried spreading some stuff on set... We only had luck with that when we trapped... and I am to lazy to run trap line and set them constantly..

plus I enjoy the sport of actually calling one in.. But like you said I have done took all the dumb ones out..

now im stuck with a challenge when I go.. When I set up.. I always end up seeing coyotes at another set Lol... Sooo I guess most of the time its luck of the draw..

I actually use one of my friends dog as a guide to what coyotes are doing.. its a complete free dog that never is fed and roams on a 1000 acre farm.. she destroys coons or anything she sees..

Alot of the time she will be lazy all day(right now in this 100 degree heat) then when she start getting active I will go set up and its almost like she behaves just like coyotes..

MudderChuck 07-03-2016 07:33 PM

I never did call much, my thing was mostly ambush. I walk a wide circle after a rain and find tracks, either overlapping from more than one day or coming and going and set up there abouts. About half of their wandering seems to be random, just following their nose or ears in search of a meal, the other half is habit. It is their territory and they do form habits.

With the really sneaky ones it turns into a war of wits, they usually win, they have better senses and some are smarter than I am.

After the hunt I let my dog follow some tracks, if you like walking you can likely spot their den. If you hunt one area for years you can spot a lot of dens. Which kind of levels the playing field and tips the balance into your favor.

One trick I did use was to dig some holes (maybe two feet deep) with a post hole digger and toss some offal into the hole. I only used it in places where there was little chance of a Cow or Horse wandering by, a prime spot was an area fenced off to prevent the Deer from eating young trees, fences don't mean much to Yotes or Fox. Baiting for anything is forbidden some places. Shooting a Yote or Fox with it's head in a hole and it's rear end in the air is fairly easy.

If you have any agriculture where you hunt, those big rolls of Hay the dairy farmers leave stacked in a field are a prime spot for Fox or Yotes. They turn into Mouse and Rat hotels, the Fox even den there.

jayatnight 07-04-2016 02:43 AM

I have a hard time with just waiting I like to be actively calling or something.. I have found a few dens... and I do day scout not as much as when I started.. I pretty much know my sets.. and honey holes...

I just bought a 55 gal drum of some bait(isnt sold as coyote bait)... It something different and is working amazingly, I dont wanna give away my secret lol...

its the simplest thing but most would never guess it..

MudderChuck 07-04-2016 09:22 AM


Originally Posted by jayatnight (Post 4263568)
I have a hard time with just waiting I like to be actively calling or something.. I have found a few dens... and I do day scout not as much as when I started.. I pretty much know my sets.. and honey holes...

I just bought a 55 gal drum of some bait(isnt sold as coyote bait)... It something different and is working amazingly, I dont wanna give away my secret lol...

its the simplest thing but most would never guess it..

At my age, just sitting is the better alternative. Walking miles over broken ground is something I do with trepidation, old joints hurt. My days of running with the hounds are over with.

Kentucky fried Chicken is always a good bait. I sometimes raid the dumpster behind KFC and load up 20 pounds of Chicken bones. Put them in a few plastic buckets and hang them in some trees or bushes, wait and see what shows up. I learned that chasing Hog poachers, that is what they do. Check your laws, don't get caught baiting if it is illegal, not worth the possible trouble.

jayatnight 07-04-2016 04:10 PM

for coyote it is legal here.. there pretty much no laws against them.. I called the DNR about it... I mean I sure there is some, but generally things are legal for intelligent people to use..

and the odd thing is I dont see many foxes in the off season either so I dont worry about shooting a fox...

plus I am hunting on a cattle farm so they are varmints to him so I think all things are legal... for coyotes anyways... and hogs..

hubby11 01-02-2020 11:36 AM

I know this is an old post but a guy that hunts deer at the same property that I do in Loudoun County, Virginia recently had a pretty harrowing experience. He was walking up to one of our fixed stands, fairly deep in the woods at about 7:00 am when he was surrounded by 10-12 coyotes. They kept circling him, getting as close as 5 yards, totally unafraid. Their mistake as my friend had a .308 AR platform rifle. He let loose about 10 rounds, both in front and behind him. He later recovered four that he shot.

I have heard coyotes at that location but have never actually seen any. I understand that this behavior is way out of the ordinary as most coyotes will take off at the sight of a human. My only guess is that the behavior might change with a large pack, which in itself is unusual. Maybe he was near the den?

In any case the hunting group I manage is going to start looking into some lethal methods, not so much for population control, more to make sure that the coyotes maintain a healthy fear of humans.

CalHunter 01-02-2020 04:53 PM

Start a new topic (in this forum) with any questions or even just comments that you have. As you can see, there are several members who will likely respond.

MudderChuck 01-03-2020 07:55 AM

When they from bigger packs and get really brazen, where I hunted Yotes, was mostly due to the food supply. They'd avoid the suburbs except in the late fall, Cats and small dogs were at peril-. Gets dry in So:Cal in the fall, the rodent population goes way down, also the pups are out of the den and hunting which also lowers the food supply. When it is a choice between taking a chance and starving they are gonna take a chance.

That and some of it has to do with conditioning. Yotes or Fox that are used to humans (that aren't shooting at them) tend to be less shy.

Story about Yotes, I was at a famous desert spring where most of the desert wildlife could be seen. Signs up telling people to stay at least a hundred yards away from the spring and to use binoculars. A female Yote with her teets hanging came to drink, some foolish woman thought it would be a good idea to offer the Yote some food. And then made a really dumb mistake tried to feed the Mamma Yote by hand. That Yote took the Pork Chop and pieces of most of her fingers.

Oldtimr 01-03-2020 11:46 AM

When I was still on the job in PA I got called to the lobby one day to talk to a gentleman who wanted to talk to a Conservation Officer. I went to the lobby and met him and he proceeded to tell me he was hiking and scouting in the blue mountains, he was high on a ridge when he encountered thick mountain laurel that he could not walk through so he got down no all fours and crawled along a deer trail until he popped out into an opening where there were 6 or 7 coyotes laying down. He said they immediately jumped up and attacked him. He showed me his torn jacket and bites on his lower arms and hands. He was set upon by the coyotes, I think out of fear from being surprised when he popped into their space rather than as prey because his wounds were not all that severe. I thanked him for the information and also told him to see his Dr and be guided by whatever the Doc tells him to do regarding Rabies shots. There have been other incidents in the news in the state where someone got bitten by a coyote, mostly trying to protect a pet. They are predators and all predators will bite under certain conditions.

Ridge Runner 01-04-2020 02:25 PM

here is what I found through my research
a western male coyote will tip the scales around 35 pounds, a eastern male will go 50, 60, even 70 pounds. all I have read points to the conclusion that when coyotes started expanding east, they could not cross the Mississippi River, so they went north above the Great Lakes, in the north they crossed with grey wolves and various dog breeds. coyotes do not hunt in packs, wolves do, carrying this trait when food gets scarce, and the weather is bad, they pack up and when packed their fear of humans is not as great as when they are paired up. I personally have killed eastern coyotes to 51 pounds, by far larger than their western cousins.
RR

Oldtimr 01-05-2020 05:38 AM

There has been quite a bit of research in PA on coyotes. Most of the animals tested had wolf DNA in them. In addition they moved into the state from north to south, we had them in the northern tier counties before we had them in the central and southern counties. We not have them in all 67 counties, even Philadelphia County. The incident I described above took place in Dauphin Co. which is in the southeast part of the state.

hubby11 01-05-2020 04:50 PM

Thanks for the additional info. I put together a little info page for my hunting group, taking some information from some state DFG sites, from some online articles, and this thread. Some of the interesting facts:

The eastern coyote, Canis latrans var., is found throughout the northeastern United States and southeastern Canada. Recent research shows the eastern coyote is an immigrant, the origin of which likely involved interbreeding between coyotes and gray wolves. New genetic tests show that all eastern coyotes are actually a mix of three species: coyote, wolf and dog. The percentages vary, dependent upon exactly which test is applied and the geographic location of the canine.

Coyotes in the Northeast are mostly (60%-84%) coyote, with lesser amounts of wolf (8%-25%) and dog (8%-11%). Start moving south or east and this mixture slowly changes. Virginia animals average more dog than wolf (85%:2%:13% coyote:wolf:dog) while coyotes from the Deep South had just a dash of wolf and dog genes mixed in (91%:4%:5% coyote:wolf:dog). Tests show that there are no animals that are just coyote and wolf (that is, a coywolf), and some eastern coyotes that have almost no wolf at all. Other studies indicate that the eastern coyote is intermediate in size and shape between gray wolves and western coyotes. Coyotes are so resilient that killing them, even in great numbers, just doesn't have much effect. Decades ago, several Western states tried to reduce coyote numbers through poisoning, trapping, and bounty hunting. But wildlife officials found that 70 percent of the entire population had to be killed every year to make a dent in the numbers — almost an impossible target. Coyotes also have a biological mechanism that triggers larger litters whenever their numbers drop. So as soon as any type of bounty ends, the population jumps right back.


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Today my hunting group went to our property to check the area for coyote sign. We believe we found two dens; one higher on the rocky ridge-line of the property, another in some thick stuff a bit further down. Both were cleverly set up - good drainage and hard to spot until you were right on top of them. We messed up the dens a bit and left some of our own personal "sign." One of my hunters has taken 5-7 from of the pack including likely at least one from the alpha pair. I doubt that will have any long term effect on the population, but hopefully we have busted up the pack enough to ensure they have a healthy fear of humans. Our situation with this property is somewhat unusual give our primary responsibility is deer population control - it's a vineyard - so despite our dislike of the 'yotes, we have to admit that a few of them are beneficial in culling some fawns in the spring. As long as they don't pose a danger to humans we can tolerate them.


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