Shotgun Ammo for Coyote
 

So I am saving to purchase a Savage .17 HMR for coyote hunting and plan on using my 835 Ultimag for the real close range shots which is 25 yards or less...
My 835 is set up for turkey hunting so I do not plan on changing how the gun is set up. I know that it puts a killer pattern of Federal Premium no. 5 in 3 inch mags at 55 yards or less.
Is the no. 5 shot to small for coyote at distances up to 25 yards? If it is to small what size shot should I use? Do they make a coyote specific load for shotguns?

You will be fine inside 30yds with those loads. I would rather have 4's but if all you have is 5's, keep it that close and they will drop. I would rather have 4 buck, but would not shoot it through a turkey tube. Are you planning on hunting 'yotes with that 17 HRM?

00 or 0 buck is recommended.

Get close enough and you can kill a coyote with a baseball bat, but that doesn't make it a good choice for hunting them.

No 5 Turkey shot just doesn't penetrate like heavier shot will. Think about what it does on turkey: very limited penetration on feathers and breast meat (if any), and only kills if it hits exposed skin of the neck and head.

I have been using Winchester Super-X 00 Buckshot for about 20yrs, very hard to beat this load for coyotes.

In the last few years, I've been experimenting with new loads, Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote T shot does very well. The Federal Flight Control No.4 Buck and No.1 buck are also doing very well for me this winter. I'm excited to try the new Winchester Supreme hi-density X-tended Range Coyote B loads, but I'm a bit nervous about the small pellet size.

In general, your rule of thumb can be "use buckshot". There's a big gap between even No4 or 5 turkey loads and Buckshot. The Dead Coyote Hevi-shot gets away with being a smaller shot (T buckshot) because it's heavier than lead.

Copperplated turkey shot will have even less penetration than all lead.

Tried and true 00buckshot with a modified or improved choke is cheap enough that it's hard to reason why anyone would use a sub-par load.

I like #1 buckshot. Good enough penetration and nearly double the number of pellets of the same shell with 00 buck.

For called in coyotes i like #4 buckshot.

Ok I need to clarify a little here... I will be using the 835 Ultimag for the close range shots on coyotes. I do not want to change it from a turkey set up to coyote set up... I asked about shot size because I know that at 55 yards or less the pattern density from my #5 turkey shot is awesome... So is there a shot size like a #1 or #2 shot that I can put out of my super full choked 835?
I will be using the .17 HMR for yote hunting because most of my shots will be 150 yards or less... Mostly less since I will be hunting wooded areas and a few open fields here and there. I found a .17 HMR for around $275 and ammo is plentiful at the store where as .223 or .22-250 ammo is like trying to find a lost $50 bill in the middle of the ghetto if you know what I mean!

Now just need to change your choke.

The Dead Coyote shells from HeviShot are awesome
when you use the shotgun

I'll start with this:

Changing chokes to suit a different shot size isn't really changing your "set up"? I use the same barrel, sight, shotgun for coyotes and turkeys, I just change out the chokes, takes about 2minutes.

Yes, they do make coyote specific loads: buckshot... Currently there are two marketed/branded "coyote" loads that are great on coyotes, both are heavier than lead, and both are larger shot than what you're using on turkey: "Hevi-shot Dead Coyote" T shot, and "Winchester X-tended Range High Density Coyote" B shot. Federal 4 buck and 1buck are also marketed as "predator" or "coyote" loads, and if you search for "coyotes" under Winchesters shotgun ammunition page, it will come up with ONLY buckshot and slugs.

The ONLY good choices for coyotes are heavier than lead shot in "lettered" shot sizes, like B, BB, T, or F, OR buckshot in lead or heavier than lead shot in 4buck up through 000buck. Anything bigger than 4 buck (maybe including 4 buck) will require a bigger choke than a "super full" turkey choke.

Waterfowl and turkey loads are too small.

Using buckshot of appropriate size for coyotes will require you to change your choke, as you'll need a 0.680" or larger choke to really pattern well with buckshot sizes. "Lettered" shot sizes like B, BB, T, or F are marginal for lead shot, or a good option for "heavier than lead shot", and can usually use a 0.650-0.660" turkey choke, 4 Buck will sometimes pattern well with 0.660", but in my experience, it does better with a 0.680".

Now, if you're dead set on not changing out your choke, then your ONLY options are heavier than lead, "lettered" shot sizes, which will cost you an arm and a leg, and have limited availability.

The ONLY good choices for coyotes that will pattern well out of a turkey choke are heavier than lead shot in "lettered" shot sizes, like B, BB, T, or F. Again, anything bigger will require a bigger choke.

Yes, No5 shot is too small for coyotes at distances up to 25yrds.

A fist full of sand has a great pattern density at 5ft, but it's not a good choice for coyotes either.

There's a reason that you don't use a pheasant load on turkeys, and there's a reason you shouldn't use a turkey load on a coyote.

Increased shot count and pattern density don't mean anything if the penetration and killing power isn't there. No5 shot just can't hang with Buckshot in terms of killing power, been there, done that, lost a few coyotes to turkey loads, learned my lesson, stopped using turkey loads for coyotes.

Pellet weight is the important thing here. Since muzzle velocity and pellet shape (ballistic coefficient) will be the same then the only significant difference in penetration and killing power is the pellet weight. There is LITERALLY 8 times more energy on every pellet of 4buck than every pellet of No5. 4Buck even has TWICE the energy per pellet as BB shot.

Speaking from experience, you just won't get the killing power out of small turkey or waterfowl shot. Connect 10x with your turkey loads at 25yrds or less and I'd expect 1 or two DRT's, a few more will flop or spin, maybe need a follow up anchoring shot, and about half of them will still have their legs under them and enough lung to get far enough away that you don't recover them, especially since you're talking about wooded areas.

No5 shot on coyotes = a lot of superficial tissue damage, with a few lucky pellets getting in deep enough to do the job, and a coyote that dies later today or tomorrow, miles away, or worse, next dies next week from infection.

Bigger/heavier shot is the direction you need to be going. I personally wouldn't waste my time with #1 or #2 waterfowl loads, even in heavier than lead options (Hevi-shot, Fiocchi "Tundra", Winchester X-tended Range High Density), but at least it's better than #5 shot. I would HIGHLY recommend you look at Hevi-shot Dead Coyote T shot, or Winchester X-tended Range HD Coyote B shot.

I used some lead #1 and #2 shot loads in the 1990's for coyotes, trying to use up some dry-land waterfowl loads, performance was pathetic, just as bad as the Turkey loads are.

I'm guessing your "turkey choke" is in the 0.650-0.660" ballpark, so you'll be able to handle up to about 4buck (ragged edge), and I would expect that choke will do very well with the Winchester X-tended Range Coyote HD B shot or Hevi-shot Dead Coyote T shot. Again, No1 or No2 SHOT in heavier than lead will be marginal at best in my book, I highly recommend heavier/larger shot.

The .17HMR isn't my first choice for coyotes, but it works. 150yrds is asking a lot, and I will say from experience with the .17HMR that at 150yrds, you cannot rely upon vital zone hits. You're going to have to stick it behind their ear or impact on the brain box at that range. I mean this quite literally: if you can't hit an acorn at the range you're hunting at FROM YOUR HUNTING FIELD SHOOTING POSITION, then you're not taking an ethical shot with the .17HMR on a coyote.

A .22WMR is a better choice than a .17HMR, but marginally so. For 150yrd coyote medicine, ESPECIALLY in thick cover where you can lose a dog if it runs very far after the shot, you need to be looking at something that will put them in the dirt.

If you can't find 223 or .22-250 ammo locally, order online. A .22Hornet also makes a fantastic close range coyote killer. After over 20yrs of calling coyotes, and almost a decade doing it with a .17HMR, I would NOT recommend a .17HMR as your primary coyote rifle. If your local shops don't offer .223rem or .22-250 ammo, then I'd find it hard to believe that they would have heavier-than-lead waterfowl ammo on the shelf that would be a good choice for coyotes either, so ultimately, you just need to find a new outlet to be shopping.

.17HMR for coyotes is almost in the same boat as No5 shot. It can work, but it has extreme limitations, and ultimately just isn't a good fit as a primary coyote weapon. Simply upping the ante a little will take away a LOT of those limitations, so it's foolish NOT to do it.

Thanks for all the advice! Greatly appreciated!

I wasn't even going to touch the 17 issue for I feel and have seen it fail. I shot a yote some time back trapped with a 17HRM in a Taurus Raging Bull a buddy had and wanted to try out on a yote. I took him along and I had one in a trap. I took the pistol and shot the yote broadside at about 25yds in the ribs to just see what it would do. Gun goes bang, yote drops, yote pops back up and REALLY has a case of WTF!!!! I put the next round between the eyes and its DRT. Upon skining we find out the round just blew through the hide to only explode on/in the ribs and only took out the near side rib and lung that was it. Next round created brain soup!! Do as the others have suggested and get a 223 or 250 and you won't look back.

I shoot ground squirells that crawl off after getting hit with a .204.


Always bring enough gun.

Ok so the .17 Hmr is out the window! I forgot that my sister has a Remington 700 .243 so I am thinking an 80 grain bullet out of the .243 would be enough for a 200 yard shot...
What feedback do you have for that?
As far as using my Mossburg 835 Ultimag.... That may not happen because it has been pretty hard to find a choke that is not super full for it anywhere near where I live... I looked on Cabelas with no luck... Have one more place to call as well as going to Mossburg directly! So it looks like I will need to buy a completely new shotgun for the in close stuff!

Which choke are you looking for? Or which shot size are you considering?

MidwayUsa.com, everything you need. Search choke mossberg 835. Done deal for any size you want.

According to Mossberg I was told not to shoot OO buck out of the Xtra-full choke tube. Not real super familiar with choke tubes and the limitations they have so that is why I came to huntingnet for advice!

I use a .243 with 75gr. V-max bullets if I am expecting long shots or if it's windy.

Puts them right down.

Use a IC or Mod choke when shooting buckshot.

Can't beat a .243, especially if you're having trouble finding the .223 and 22-250 ammunition right now.

Plus you could use the thing for deer as well.

can you find VMAX pre loaded for .243 and 5.56 or do you have to "roll your own"?

Coyote Shotshell Lecture...
 

00 buck isn't happy coming out of a X-Full choke. 00buck generally needs an Imp or Light Mod choke to be happy. Some guys get away with buffered shot in a Mod choke, but ultimately you have to pattern it to see what works best.

Here's more info that you'll ever need to know about shot selection for calling coyotes:

Rule #1: YOU MUST PATTERN YOUR SHOTGUN BEFORE TAKING IT AFIELD. I'm giving ranges for choke constrictions below for various shot sizes, which I offer as a guide, but they may not like YOUR particular shotgun. These rules below were derived by a lot of money blowing down range while patterning and a lot of fur in the dirt over the years out of a dozen or so shotguns (remington 870's, 1187, 1100, benelli M2, Nova, Supernova, Mossberg 500, and a few other odds and end shotty's) with various chokes.

00buck: Choke = imp cyl or light mod, wanting something in the 0.715-0.720" ballpark. Buffered buckshot seems to do better with the tighter side, even reaching down to a modified choke, standard buckshot seems to do better with improved. The limitation here is that there are only 8-15 pellets, so at any substantial range, the pattern density is very low. I have used Winchester Super-X 00Buck for over 20yrs on coyotes, 2.75", 3", and 3.5". This is a great "stand-by" load for a guy that wants a load that's on the shelf at any shop, and doesn't require specialized chokes (same chokes you'd use on pheasant). It would kill a coyote at 100yrds, but the pattern density is terrible past 50, so the shot count is really limiting.

#1-#3 buck: Choke = Mod, Imp Mod, or Light Full (obviously light full will likely be too tight for #1 buck, but may work for #3 buck), something in the 0.700-0.710" ballpark. Hard to come by, but much better pattern density and pellet count than 00buck. The Federal loads are great, pattern very well for me, and have smacked coyotes like a truck the few times I have used them in the field.

#4 buck Choke = Light Full, Full, X-full is iffy, usually 0.680" seems to be the bottom end for my shotty's, you might get lucky with a 0.660" or 0.655" turkey choke, but my best performance is 0.675-0.680". I'm using an old version of the Carlson's Dead Coyote Choke in 0.680". The Federal #4 buck is quickly becoming my favorite load for coyotes over the last two years. Find me some #4buck in heavier-than-lead for about $2.50-3.00 a shot and I'd never shoot anything else. Great pellet count, good penetration, tight patterns = great range.

T, BB, and B: Choke = Full to X-full, can go as low as 0.650-0.660", but 0.680" may do better. MUST be heavier than lead to get decent penetration and good stopping power. Lots of shot, but not much pellet weight. Have heard reports of guys getting a LOT of run off coyotes with the Winchester X-tended Range High Density Coyote B shot, but I've yet to get enough of them to try in the field yet personally. Carlson's Dead Coyote Hevi-shot T shot gave me holes in my patterns and flyers with 0.655" and 0.660" chokes, but pattern BEAUTIFULLY with 0.680" old version of the Carlson's Dead Coyote Choke. The Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote T shot load is fantastic, but at $5 a shot, I gave up on it.

Patternmaster (non-constriction, wad-stripping) chokes are great, I seem to get better patterns with restriction chokes, and the wads from certain loads are NOT compatible with the Patternmaster Chokes, but I highly recommend anyone looking for a great choke for the entire gammut of these loads take a look at the Patternmasters. This DOES, however, limit you to using only one shell length with that choke. The performance difference is noticeable when you use the wrong length, and I bounce back and forth between 3" and 3.5", so I don't use the PM chokes regularly anymore.

The Carlson's Dead Coyote Choke that I have and use does not exist anymore. It is a non-wad-stripping model labeled "Carlson's Dead Coyote". The first one I bought was a 0.660", which I returned to Carlson's because I was getting holes in my patterns, and they sent me a 0.680". There are now two Carlson's "coyote chokes" available, one labeled "Carlson's Coyote" and one "Hevi-shot Dead Coyote by Carlson's". I forget right now which is which, one is wad-stripping, the other is not.

For Imp Cyl, Mod, and Full chokes, as well as Light Full, light mod, and imp mod, I have just used (or bought) factory tubes and done well. My 0.655" and 0.660" are Tru-glo Gobble Stopper and Primos Jelly Head and Tight Wad chokes, all 3 are fantastic turkey chokes, and have done pretty well with the Hevi-shot Dead Coyote load and Winchester Xtended Range HD Coyote, but really shine with #4 and #5 turkey loads.

Yes, Hornady makes a few different factory loads with V-max bullets for both .243win and .223rem, depending on what bullet weight you're looking for.

Yes. The Hornady SuperFormance rounds will have what you want and they are GREAT on the 'Yotes!!!!
Nomercy, great reply and write up!!!! Have you ever tried the Briley choke tubes? I shoot mainly the ported Imp. Mod for all my waterfowl with both steel, Hevi-Metal and the Hevi-Shot loads and find it really hard to beat till I drop down to ported Mod for the BB steel and larger than 2's in HS.

".....Briley choke tubes." SC


Some would say the very best !

http://www.briley.com/

In the military(police) one of my duties in Africa/SEA and US was animal control on runways. 00 buck from a cylinder bored 12ga is close range work, bird shot (Note the term BIRD) is useless. I had one feral dog run away dragging his guts shot with a 110gr Sierra HP .30-06 @ 3100 fps in an AB dump that we never found! Never use Heavy-Shot(Gov't too cheap-thats a joke now), but #4 buck 3" and #1 buck 12ga worked very well under40 yds. When I was able to use my guns back in the CONUS-Mossberg 535 w/ full choke added 10 yds to the buckshot loads and 223 from M16s/Rem700 HB Varmint rifle and Savage M10 .220 Swift put it out to almost as far as you can safely see on an AB! As of my retirement 200+ dogs/cats/varmints. That count includes 21.5 yrs as a State Police officer where dogs were dispatched on search warrants, rabid/sick animals found on patrol and feral dogs seen hunting/working. Several coyotes exposing themselves during day time, crossing country roads, etc, met their fate with a Ruger MKII HB pistol/Red dot sight loaded with CCI Velocitors. Feral cats too. 1 bobcat acting sick midday passed via .45ACP.

The ducks, geese and clay birds would say they are smokin!!!!!!!!!! I almost don't own any other choke tubes. They are my, without question, go to tubes in all my waterfowl work and my trap guns. I have several Hastings and Carlson tubes for turkeys in my 12ga and a Stewart Wrights tube for my wifes 20ga.

Dead Coyote Choke tube coupled with Dead Coyote shells both from
HeviShot....the coyotes won't stand a chance