.17hmr, or 22mag for coyotes under 100 yds. ?
 

Would like some opinions on this. Most shots limited in range due to thick brush. Use 12 GA. out to about 40 yes., but want something for the longer opportunities.

I would definately go with something bigger. But if that's what you have now and don't wanna buy another rifle it's not impossible. But I would absolutely not make anything but a headshot! I'd go with the 22 mag over the 17 thats just me... No doubt a 22 mag will put down a yote at 100 yards if shot in the head. I'd just be iffy bout a body shot. Hard to say if it would do much damage, they're tougher than nails!

"Most shots limited in range due to thick brush. Use 12 GA."

Continue to use your 12 gauge.


"....want something for the longer opportunities."

.204, .22-250, .223, .243


+1

"...they're tougher than nails!

Personally, the .17HMR and .22WMR are "moderate range" rifles for coyotes, not "longer opportunity" rifles.

Like Sheridan said, that 12ga will suit you fine for these dense brush shots.

If you want longer shots, step up to a centerfire 22cal, like a .204 Ruger, .223rem, .22-250, etc etc etc.

I have taken a lot of coyotes and bobcats over the years with a .17HMR and a .22WMR, but I only use them because I own them. I wouldn't necessarily recommend you go out and spend hard earned money on one as your dedicated coyote rifle.

If all you can afford is a rimfire rifle, that's a different story. In my experience, both kill coyotes dead at 100yrds, and neither has necessarily a huge advantage over the other. The .17HMR is flatter shooting, so some people think that makes it more accurate. Personally, I don't really see any practical difference for 100yrd coyote hunting.

Ultimately, if you're going to spend $400-500 to buy a rifle to extend your coyote hunts from 40yrds to 100yrds (buying a rimfire mag rifle), why not just spend $500-700 and extend your hunts to 600yrds (buying a centerfire 22cal)? The impact of your investment will be MUCH greater if you step up to a centerfire 22cal, or even a 6mm or quarter bore (.243win, .25-06, .257Roberts, 6mm PPC, etc).

My recommendation would be to get a .223 or .22-250 in a Savage bolt action, drop on a 3-9x50 or 4-16x50mm scope, and knock yourself out.

something a bit bigger i would suggest. since your going to buy a .22 mag or .17 which will run you up to $500 max, you might as well get a .223, 22-250, or a 243. marlin just came out with a bolt action varmint rifle in that price range and i'm sure savage also have some options. but if your shots are rarely over 40 yds i wouldn't really waste the money, save the money and wait till you need something. but everyone needs more guns :)

Savage just came out with a bolt action 5.45x39 rifle. The ammo is cheap. If it has to be HP, cut the tips off. They're hollow under the jacket. Hornady also makes an excellent v-max load.

You can pick up an H&R varmint in 223 or other various varmint calibers really cheap and are VERY accurate. I bought my dad one in 243 and it drives nails!!!!! Topped off with a 4x12 scope and your good to go with in 400yds. You could go with a 223 and still be good out to the same distance and ammo slightly cheaper.

22 magnum will flatten a coyote

You can kill'em with a good slingshot, if you hit'em just right !


You know what I mean ???


Use enough gun !!!

My Predator Calling Partner is using a Savage Bolt-Action in the .22 Magnum,it has the Accu-trigger also.He hasn't had the opportunity to shot a Coyote with it yet but its just a matter of time since we've been going out calling for the past few weeks with the new Rifle he has...I'm sticking with my CZ-USA .204 Rifle....I've taken down 5 Coyotes so far...all have dropped in the spot they were shot at....1 spun in a circle and dropped since I hit it too far back....but She didn't run off either! :D ;)

Thanks for all the good input guys! 100 yds.is a long shot in the terrain I hunt, and although I would like to step up to a. 223, or, .22-250, I'm also dealing with noise-shy landowners.

Seriously?
 

I have to point out that if a noise shy land owner can tell the difference in report of a 12ga and any of the centerfire .22 variants, I'd be surprised. PLus if there are so many coyotes running round that the noise of you shooting them is bothersome, just show them the dead yotes! They will get real agreeable once they see how many there are. If not, then it one or two shots a trip. No big deal.

Neither is a good coyote gun even under 100yds.Stick with the 12!!!!

I'd disagree here. Either of the .17HMR or .22WMR will be better at 75-100yrds than a 12ga. Either rifle will have better range than the 12ga.

Relatively speaking, 00 buck pellets have energy somewhere between a .22lr and a .22mag (200ft.lbs. per pellet vs. 110ft.lbs. for a .22lr, and 325ft.lbs. for a .22WMR). The downside is that they're ROUND with a terrible BC, and are SLOW (1300fps for the 00buck, 1900fps for the .22WMR). The low momentum and energy, plus the blunt "nose" of the pellets give them relatively poor penetration.

For T shot, on the other hand, each pellet has about 1/3 the energy of a .22lr. Again, the same problems with the low momentum and energy yielding poor penetration, and the low velocity and poor BC giving a TERRIBLE trajectory.

So if you connect, it's not going to penetrate as well.

But what about connecting? I can almost guarantee that I'll connect with my Savage 93 .22WMR at 100yrds on a headshot. Hitting a 1-2MOA target is childsplay with a rifle. I've patterned my Benelli Supernova's with different chokes and 00buck and T at 100yrds, I CANNOT guarantee a kill shot connection at 100yrds. Heck, based on these patterns, I wouldn't even bet on it. With 1oz (9pellet) 00buck, the best patterns I can get at 100yrds are best measured in Minutes of Coyote, not MOA.

For the noise aspect, then the .22WMR is the clear answer of the two. The .22WMR is lower pressure and lower velocity than the .17HMR, so in general, it's all around quieter.

Granted the 12 or even a 10g is useless at 75+yds but with 4 buck or Heavy shot T they will get you around 55-60yds.Coyotes are tough critters.Beyond shotgun range you want a good CF like a .223 vs any RF.

In general, I definitely agree, it's dam hard to beat a .223rem for coyotes. The OP has a good reason for wanting to use the rimfires.

One thing I have to throw in the ring, as you might have read in one of my threads posted today, is that while "in general" rimfires aren't ideal, they certainly do work.

Recap of my other thread: I was visiting my dad last weekend, and we were planning to run hounds that night for coons. My dad suggested we go coyote calling that afternoon, even though all we had with us were our coon rifles (3 Marlin 60 .22lr's). My bro-in-law felt the way you do, that rimfires just aren't enough for coyotes, so he didn't want to take a rifle, so my sis came along and used his instead.

All 3 of us shooters got a coyote, and my sis got a double (her first). All of our shots were head shots under 100yrds, with the closest shot around 40yrds, using CCI Mini-Mag 40grn solids.

Of course, I'm not saying a .22lr is the ideal coyote rifle, but I think it really puts some perspective on how much gun you really "need" for coyotes.

Now we're up to killing bears with RF's.I know Bell killed over a thousand elephants with his .275 Rigby/7x57 but lets stay in the real world here folks.

I think the "rimfire for coyotes" quote/unquote debate is very similar to the cartrdige debate for hogs. There are guys out there that have been knocking down hogs for generations with small caliber, small cartridges, with well placed shots behind the ear. Then there's the other half that treats a hog like any other big game, taking vitals zone shots, needing a heavy 30cal to punch through their fatty, gristly shield. Both work, but you hear the 30cal guys knocking the 22cal guys year after year, saying they're undergunned.

But it's hard to argue with dead hogs...

For coyotes, there's the 22CF guys that keep preaching that no RF is big enough. In my experience, if you ask these guys where to shoot a dog, again, they revert to their big game mentality, "shoot em in the vitals". It's a no-brainer that a .17HMR won't likely penetrate and produce an exit wound on a dog at 300yrds, but nobody's talking about that range. At 100yrds, putting a 17cal hole through a coyotes skull or heart is child's play.

At the end of the day, it's hard to argue with dead dogs...

So ultimately, there's no denying both work (22CF and mag RF's, even .22lr's occasionally).

It's hard to not have at least a mild case of "magnumitus" when we've been exposed to it for so long. If we look back at hunters that "used what they had, and it worked!" stories, you'll see tons of tales about Bell's elephants, or the .22 Hornet being used for polar bears, or Teddy and his .30-06 making a trip to africa, etc etc. We're so used to blowing exit wounds out the back side of animals and over powering game, we forget how little work REALLY needs to be done to take one down.

A bullet through the heart or brain will kill any animal on earth. A .17HMR or .22WMR (or even a .22LR) can push a bullet through a coyotes skull or rib at 100yrds, and most shooters with modern rimfire rifles and good optics can place a bullet inside 2" at 100yrds. If it has the "stuff", and you can get it there, odds are, it's going to do the job.

And it's dang nice dropping a single X-stitch closing up a single 22cal hole in my hides, rather than "footballing" out a golfball sized exit wound.

This is one of the things I think guys easily forget. A .22WMR has as much energy at 250yrds as a .22lr has at the muzzle. I'm not saying that a 22mag should be used at 250, but in all fairness, nobody is going to argue that a .22lr at 10ft is pretty dang effective, sure seems to do the trick on my trap lines at least.

I actually had this same conversation with one of my cousins over Christmas dinner a few days ago. He's an avid trapper (45yrs and counting) that uses a .22lr to KO animals on his trap line, but he swears a .22WMR is just too "underpowered". It's inexperience talking. He's never used a .22WMR at that range, and never considered the relative energy levels. But he didn't have a good answer for "why will 90ft.lbs. kill a coyote at 10ft but not at 100yrds?"

Beyond that, most guys, even on this board, will agree that a .223rem has plenty of punch even past 500yrds for coyotes, and that accuracy is ultimately the limiting factor for not shooting that far. Relatively speaking, a .22WMR has about the same energy at 100yrds as a .223rem at 500yrds.

Moral of the story, if a .22lr works at 10ft, and a .223rem works at 500yrds, then the .22WMR is dang sure going to work at 100yrds (higher energy than either of the other two cases).

I read this post and can't help but shake my head. I'd say its been six months since i've been on this sight and still the same arguments. The fact is that the 17 HMR can kill a coyote and a 22 mag will kill one just as well. In fact I'd wager that they've probably killed just as many if not more than the 22 CFs.

But the fact also remains that just because you can do something doesn't mean tha you ought to try. I've hunted yotes with a 17 hmr the past three years. The one thing I've found is that body shots generally don't have much effect on them.

This past fall I had to trade off the 17hmr. I had surgery on my right shoulder and my 270 was too much rifle for it. So I traded it off for a 243 win. Head shots had the same result but the body shots with this cartridge had much more deadly effects than the rimfire cartridges.

I would say go for a small center fire such as the 223 or 204 the 22-250 is also a very good cartridge.

I was going to buy me a 223 for my new yote adventures in sw Florida. But I did some research and found that Winchester makes a 110 grain 3006 bullet.

WATCH OUT I can use my 06 weatherby topped with my kahles 3.5 - 10 x 50mm deadly and gives you the ability to hunt late very very late or early very very early.

100 or 110grn bullets out of a .30-06 SEEM like a great idea in theory, but in application, they fall short. The ballistic coefficients of these stubby little 30cals are terrible, and they have to be loaded VERY conservatively otherwise they'll be over-spun (I had Speer 100grn "Plinkers" that looked like buckshot patterns at 10ft. MV of 3550fps).

I HAVE used 125grn Speer TNT's in a .30-06 (10yrs ago) for prairie dogs. I was right around 3100fps, and they were frankly too light for long range work, but they WERE a little nicer on coyote pelts than 150grn bullets.

Personally, after using several different "light for caliber/cartridge" bullets for coyotes over the last 20yrs, if I'm going to run a .30-06, I'm just going to use 150's either in a highly frangible design, or a fairly HARD design, and leave the lightweights alone. Why shoot a 30cal if you're just going to take the long range capabilities away? Pelt damage with a 150grn A-Max or SST running 2850fps was less for me than a 125grn TNT running 3200fps, and my down range trajectory is MUCH better with the heavier bullet.

Didn't someone offer a 50gr bullet/sabot round for the 30-06?If I remember right it was ultra fast.Right up there with the swift if not faster.

I'm guessing you're refering to the Remington "Accelerators". I haven't seen them in years, but they were a much better idea in theory than they were in practice. If you pushed them "ultra fast", say .220 swift speeds, they were way over-spun (3800fps from a 1:10" twist is no bueno). The recommended load data was in the 3000-3300fps range.

The biggest issue was they were terribly inaccurate. The sabot weighed enough that it effected the bullet pretty severely when it detached. In two rifles I tried them in (a Ruger .30-06 and a custom Mauser .308win springfield dual groove that I built) gave TERRIBLE accuracy. These were rifles that were sub-MOA with 150 and 165grn bullets, but the best I could group with the accelerators was in the "minute of PALM" range at 100yrds.

It's too simple to make it this complicated. If all you have is a .30-06 and you want to hunt coyotes, pick a bullet profile and weight that your rifle likes, then make sure you're either using a hard enough bullet to prevent expansion (limit energy transfer), or using a frangible bullet at a range where it won't exit (over 50yrds, again, limiting energy transfer). Same rule applies for .243win, .308, .300wm, whatever...

Just adding my .02, we here in Southampton Virginia can only use rimfire day or night and shotgun. I carry a shotgun and my son has a .17HMR. Only killed foxes so far and have not had any trouble but I know the yotes are tougher. We hopefully will have more input later as we try again.