.17 or .22?
 

I am having trouble deciding, i would like to know what you think give details about action and model, it would be for small game including squirrels rabbits raccons armadillos possibly foxes and other
give pros and cons
THX[8D]

RE: .17 or .22?
 

As far as I' m concerned, nothing beats a .410 shotgun for small game, such as those you listed. However, I do admit that I do a lot of small game hunting annually with a .22lr Marlin Model-60 or a Ruger MK II pistol .22lr. The .17HMR is much better at varminting, it' s even considered by many to be enough for coyotes, but as far as .22WMRs and .17HMR' s go, the price of ammo is too much for all the more you get out of it, you pay twice as much (more or less depending) for each of these compared to .22lr' s, but the performance isn' t up to snuff as far as it goes, if I' m going to pay twice-three times as much, I want at least that much in better performance, and they don' t necessarily give it. Getting a .223 or .22-250 and reloading costs about as much as .22WMR' s and .17HMR' s after the initial costs, and you get MUCH more than twice the performance, not to mention the exact round that is perfect for you.

My advice would be to get a semi-auto .22lr for now, and then buy a high powered centerfire 22cal later, like a .22-250, for more serious varminting/long range shooting.

I won' t buy a hunting .22lr in anything but a Marlin Mod-60, but I enjoy shooting Ruger 10/22' s a lot, it' s just that they cost too much for just a bang around varminting rifle. For serious varminting, the mod-60 performs just as well as even accurized 10/22' s (they get to accurate at ranges beyond which the round is effective), and they cost about half as much as a base model 10/22 (not to mention accurized versions!!). Being so cheap, you don' t feel bad shooting the barrel out of it, making you a better shot, and you don' t feel bad taking it into the woods. Marlin also puts out a detachable magazine model that' s internal workings are almost identical to that of the Mod-60, if you feel the need for a detach. mag. $110 for a rifle that will shoot a half dollar at 50yrds all day long (with proper work on your part) is a great deal, the 10/22 isn' t much better, if at all, and it costs twice as much (if not more), and like I said, if I pay twice as much, I want at least twice the performance.

If you' re heart gets stuck on a 10/22, you might consider the fact that for only about $50-100 more you can get a Savage package gun in .22-250 or .223, which will for sure do better than either of the 10/22 or Mod-60.

RE: .17 or .22?
 

thanks so much man im lucky cause i got a 410 already but I was wondering what is the recoil like on the 223?

THX for your post man![8D]

RE: .17 or .22?
 

The recoil on the .223 is going to be less than your .410 with 3" shells. Not enough to worry about.

RE: .17 or .22?
 

you guys are great
sorry for all the questions but one more, can you use a .223 for deer?
it may be a stupid question for you guys but I dont know, Thanks again![8D]

RE: .17 or .22?
 

i have a 22 and a .17, the 22 collects dust now while the .17 gets the field time. I wouldnt want to hunt rabbits with it though, the shotgun would win hands down in that category, but for all else the .17 is my pick. The only reasonn i wouldnt want to hunt rabbits with it is because its to darn hard to hit a running rabbit with anything but a shotgun. And for that id go with a 20 or 12 gauge. Recoil on a 223 wont bother ya none there ***** cats to shoot.

RE: .17 or .22?
 

If coyote hunting is on the menu forget the .17, its just to small to rely on it to humanly down a coyote. Look at the savage varmint guns with the new accutrigger (if u order the gun new it will come with the accutrigger) in 223. Savage makes one model is 10fp i belive its a heavy varmint barrel 24' ' with the new trigger and would make a fine fox,coyote gun.

RE: .17 or .22?
 

I' d go with the .22lr for small game and varminting. The .17 is pretty expensive to shoot, but does the job well. I have to disagree with treedog about it not being big enough to humanly down a coyote. I' ve been using a .17hmr for awhile now and haven' t had any problems putting coyotes down. The bullet opens up great and there is very minimal pelt damage. Just gotta make your shot count. ;)

RE: .17 or .22?
 

To answer your last question Hotgunner, the .223 is really just too small for deer. It is a wonderful coyote gun, but best to keep it at that. And as far as the .17 being adequate for coyotes, it will work, but it will fail to anchor one eventually. I' ve heard numorous success storys using the .17 on coyotes, but I' ve also heard several not so successful storys already too. Bullet placement is critical!

RE: .17 or .22?
 

thank you guys so much, Ive decided to use my .410 until I get enough $$ to buy a .22 but I may just skip the .22 and go .223 or even if my dad says so, a .270 I decided against the .17 because the ammo troubles and if I get a 10/22 than I will super accurize it!
THANKS SO MUCH EVERYONE![8D]

RE: .17 or .22?
 

I' m going to disagree, the .223 is sufficient for deer, it' ll do the job, just not very well. If you try to use it, be sure that you use a hand rolled heavy weight bullet (that shoots very well in your rifle) in a partition or A-frame, that way you know your retention will be good, poor retention is much of the pitfall when it comes to taking deer with a 22cal, they just blow up, if they stuck together, they' d do ok.

Check out the deer hunting forum, there' s a topic on there now (and if it' s yours, I' m an idiot for sending you to your own thread, but if it isn' t, it' s got some good info). Good luck with it!!!!

BTW, what action type are you planning on? Which make/model?

RE: .17 or .22?
 

OK, so why would you use the .223 if, " it will do the job, but not very well." Why, tell me, why would anyone set themselves up to do a job, but not do it well. [>:]Why take a swiss army knife to a knife fight?[:o] The 22lr will do the job on a coyote in the perfect condition, the coyote is already in a trap and your 10' away, kind of conditions. Why, then, Nomercy, would you give someone that is just getting started hunting, with out a whole lot of experience, advice to concider the use of the .223 on deer sized game. I guess, you can tell, I disagree with you some times too;) ALthough, you did throw in there that a guy would be best off to " roll" his own loads using heavier constructed bullets. I do agree with that. :)

RE: .17 or .22?
 

yo howler, First im not inexperienced (just with .223s) and second what kind of an inhumane FRENCHMAN (sorry, worst word I can think of) would shoot a coyote like that[:o]
I would take my swiss army knife to a knife fight! as a backup for my machete! so calm down and remember that big bores are for people with big egos;)
peace man[8D]
.P.S. MY swiss army knife is a VERY formidible weapon, especially the can opener!;)

RE: .17 or .22?
 

as for nomercy, I was planning on a bolt action, maybe ruger all weather or a target model, i dont know which model cuz i havent thoght about it[8D]

RE: .17 or .22?
 

If you' re going to get one in a bolt, I' d get the target model, just remember not to shoot the rag nasty surplus stuff in it, it just doesn' t do the rifle justice to shoot such crap out of it. The ruger target model is great, I had one in .22-250 for a while, regretting that I sold it now, it was a great rifle, it was satin stainless (or target grey, depending on what they called it then) with a laminated stock, for a woody, it sure shot great.

RE: .17 or .22?
 

Well, Hotgunner. How would you kill a coyote that was in a trap. Oh, I know, you would calmly walk up to it, talk softly to calm it down a bit, and use your army swiss knife to put it down. So, for all those trappers, (AKA Inhumane FRENCHMEN), TAKE NOTE. You no longer need to use your 22lr to dispatch your trapped critters. Mr. Hotgunner has volunteered to come and do it for you, and he promises not to do any more fur damage than you would have by using your 22lr:D

RE: .17 or .22?
 

This is one of the few topics I respond to. I' ve researched the the .17hmr alot since its origin, read as many post I could find about it out there. By the way, the Marlin wed page has a nice amout of info on the round.

Every one out there keeps compairing apples to oranges with this caliber. It is a rimfire, nothing more. But when it comes to performance WOW!!! If you want a deer gun by a deer gun, coyote gun, long range varmiter. Any thing you could possibly want to shoot with a .22 this gun could do out to 4x the range. Yea, I reload and I' m not full of money. I have the ability to shoot a 222 mag, 2506, 22-250, 220 swift if I want to shoot any of the typical varmit rounds. But for a no fuss rifle the .17 hits hard and shoots incredable. And can out perform the other rounds in one area... no richochet (sp) or minimal to no pass thru. I shot a wood chuck this past week end at 62 yards, I witnessed something I' ve never seen before on a chuck, a cloud of dust and a dead chuck that did not move with no exit hole. Chucks are tuff, I' ve shot alot, I was impressed. Knowing its limits this gun tops the class of rimfire rifles. It appears that any one who has had the chance to shoot one agrees. If I' m sneaking around a stone wall or corn feild this is the gun I' ll have in may hands, from expereince not " I' ve heard this" .

Just shoot one and make up your own mind.

RE: .17 or .22?
 

Well, TWPAHTR, I' ll give ya some more reading on the .17 HMR. Go over to the predator masters web site, do a search on the .17HMR, and you' ll have enough reading to keep ya busy for a while. Also, while your at it, might just count how many give it a thumbs up compared to the thumbs down, as far as whether or not it is a good coyote caliber.

RE: .17 or .22?
 

hey howler[X(], and I think most hunters would know that foxes and coyotes, when caught in a trap, would chew their leg/paw off to survive

RE: .17 or .22?
 

[:o]YIKES!!! The shaving cream' s gonna hit the fan now!!!

RE: .17 or .22?
 

You' re right about that, if I was left in a trap for a few days I would do the same, that' s why most states require the trappers to run thier trap line every 24 hrs. Do you not realize that there are lots of people who trap for furs, do you really think that very many coyotes chew thier legs off before the trapper checks his traps and uses a .22lr of .22 short to dispatch them. At 13, I don' t think you know as much as you think you do.

RE: .17 or .22?
 

I bet I know more than you Mr. Big Shot[:@]
and learn to spell THEIR:D

RE: .17 or .22?
 

hotgunner, how many coyotes and foxes have you trapped? have you ever been on the trapline with someone taking them? how many feet have you found in empty traps? if you are seeing this on a regular basis, other than peta propaganda, we need to talk because you are doing something terribly wrong. if you are saying these things because you heard them please do your homework before repeating them. you are more than welcome to come on my line starting next October if you like.

RE: .17 or .22?
 

i dont trap, i hunt with a rifle in a stand

RE: .17 or .22?
 

hotgunner21

First of all if you use the right size traps a fox or coyote is not going to chew off it' s foot. And if you check your traps every 24hrs. it won' t have time to chew off it' s foot. An animal isn' t going to chew at it' s foot if it has feelings in it. Your listening to too many anti-trappers that will tell you all kinds of BS. The traps I use for fox I can spring them off in my hand without any harm to my fingers, and my fingers are a lot smaller than a fox' s foot. I' m sorry, here I go ranting and raving. But this is a subject that is close to my heart. Too many people never ran a trap line and don' t understand anything about trapping. but they will tell you how cruel it is. Don' t listen to PETA! Or any other anti-trapping snobs. Trapping is a very ethical way to stop the over population of a lot of animals, that would otherwise die of a lot of different disieses. which includes mange, distemper, rabies, and more. Sorry about the ranting and raving. But I just had to put my 2 cents into this.

RE: .17 or .22?
 

why is everyone talking about peta? i dont know too much about trapping i' ll admit but sometimes coyotes and espesially foxes will chw their foot off within 24hrs feeling or not[X(]

RE: .17 or .22?
 

Everyone is mentioning PETA because they are the ones who say this and it is a flat out lie. I' m not putting you down and I' m not trying to make you angry, nor is anyone else here, just trying to educate you. You stated yourself that you do not trap, that is fine, many of us here do. We are speaking from experience we have had on the trapline. We are wondering where your information is coming from. Who told you this? I have taken a number of coyotes and a few fox and I have never had one chew its foot off. I had a coon chew its foot off several years ago and it was my fault, thankfully, I have learned a lot since those days. Two years ago coon were not worth anything and I turned several of them loose, unharmed. Traps can be as mean or as humane as you want them to be. I have learned these things over the past fifteen years on the trapline where it counts. If you have no experience in this area you should listen to those who do. That is a big part of what these boards are for. I would be willing to bet the person you got this info from has never trapped, if they have then they were unexperieced and doing it wrong.

RE: .17 or .22?
 

OK, I think it is time to take the South bound train that started off going North, but got derailed, to a gentle stop. I need to apologize for my part. Don' t think I need to apoloigize to Nomercy, as there is no doubt that he knows guns and ammo and thier abilities, and as far as the .223 goes for deer, pretty much everyone agrees, if you can reload you can make it a short range deer gun. As far as TWPAHTR goes, I' m just on the opposite side of the fence on the .17HMR issue. I have done a lot of reading on it also, and have two friends that have them, and I have falling on the left side of the fence in thinking of it as a predator rifle. And Mr. Hotgunne21, I think you and I have both learned something here, you have probably learned more about trapping than you care to, and I have learned how to spell, THIER! so, lets drop it and move on. Also, Hotgunner21, we need more of you young people to join the hunting heritage. I think we can all agree on that.

RE: .17 or .22?
 

you got it howler, sorry[:' (], I was gettin to the point were I was ready for a war in the forums!:D
Peace:D