The Sickening Trueth About.....
 

The sickening trueth about coyotes and deer yards up here in Maine. The worst predator of all for us folks up here is the eastern coyote! The eastern coyote here is a hybred between coyote and wolve. In the winter months coyotes hunt in packs alot of the time just like the wolves do. Our deer when heavey snow comes around will yard up just like most places do. The coyotes watch these deer yards for an opportunity to kill. I know this is supposed to be that way but, for all the non beleivers that think that they only kill for food. What I am about to show should change your mind on this predator.
The coyote here is ultimate killing machine mother nature ever handed us. They will watch these deer yards until the right moment arrives and when possible they will push all the deer they can onto the ice. The deer due to their pointed holves can not run and are doomed. If they can not push the deer out they will take what they can anyway they can. Normally one will enter while the herd is surrounded and sure enough when one comes out it is food for them. This would be the best wayIMO if all was to work like that. However here, things are different as they take all they can. Here is what they will do to a deer yard if they can get the chance. I hope this opens up a few minds as to what is really happening up here in the northeast and I truely hope it doesn't come to that down there or where ever you folks are at.Thank you for looking at this. The canoe in this picture was used to move the deer around and also to get a couple out of the water that had died there.

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when did this happen? thats a lot of deer..

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The winter of 2004-2005 as 2005-2006 was a mild winter and we hope this winter will not be as bad as they didn't start yarding until mid Feb. If the warm weather gets here in time the deer will move out of the yards earlier as our snow isn't all that deep. We can only hope another mild winter will help bring them back. Most of those deer were pregnant does.

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thats really too bad.

it doesnt look as though a lot of meat was taken off of those deer. could be just for the picture though.

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No they ate some but, most was just killed on the ice.

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Welcome to nature!

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Interesting story and pics, I cannot say that I agree with all of it, maybe because I Don't know everything about coyotes and coyote behavior.

I didn't think coyotes were pack animals or even hunted in packs. I know they have family groups but they are dispursed regulary. And I thought coyotes hunted in Pairs, not big groups.

Are you sure that this isn't the work of Wolves?? Being in Maine, it isn't out of the question, there are wolves in Vermont and we have them here in NH alot.

Also, coyotes don't kill for fun like cats do.
Now, I am not doubting you but am saying that this sounds like a scenerio that I am not used to hearing or have never learned about.

I would put my money on Wolves before coyotes. This story has me wondering, I will like to learn more about it, can you give more info on it?

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Yes this is the work of coyotes, here in Maine we have a few wolves but not many. Here coyotes hunt in packs during the winter months. Also as I had mentioned these coyotes are part wolf. I had posted a pic of one earlier that was trapped on the other side of the river from where this had happened. It was not very far from here and I had requested a photo of this from one of the people that was on the scene of this. I had just recieved this today at work. So I put it up for folks to see what they can and will do if they have a chance to. Last year our deer herd here had a small rebound as a result of the mild winter and that the deer did not yard up. We hope they will continue to rebound as well.
The coyote is our biggest threat to our deer herd and in an area north of this around 25-30 miles the same year they took down a four point moose. This past year there was a decline in the coyote population so we are hoping for another good year for our deer. But, as you can tell it wouldn't take to many years like this to wipe out some pretty good deer areas. Well I have to get going as I will be working in tha A.M. Thanks for your questions and if anymore I will try to get back to you later on.

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Thats sad that they weren't eaten. Wolves in WI do this. We found three killed and just left. We could see the tracks running the deer and killing them.

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What do you mean when they yard? Is this when the snow is too deep in the woods/mountains and they come to civilization, hence yards?

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Phil, I am not doubting you I am just a little suprised that coyotes might do this!

I have seen maine coyotes because I have hunted them there, we have the same coyotes in NH.

I shot one that responded to my call face to face with me and we stared at each other from 40 yards for what felt like Minutes. I shot him twice with the .223. Once in the base of his neck at the shoulder blades and once in the side as he was running. I never did find him even though the blood trail looked like a Mass. murder seen.

Tough critter and as I stared at him,his face had Wolfy written all over it! Try to get us more info on the picture if you can please.

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So, you're worried about what? Deer are more plentiful now than at any point in history. Coyote populations aren't going to rise enough to become a threat; I guarantee.*


*Not a real guarantee

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I think what he means is during the winter, deer group up into large herds, or "yards."

This is a very sad story and one of the biggest examples of how cruel mother nature can sometimes be.:(

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The coyotes in maine are apparently the same as jakes coyotes in ohio. They are different than any coyotes in the world. Phil has said so many things to contradict normal coyote behavior. Coyotes grow to 80 pounds? yeahhhhhh.. They are the biggest and baddest killers.. get off your high horse phil.. Not everything is bigger and badder in maine..

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phil, you notice douge and boys have not responed to your pictures etc..

here in pa. in WMU2G pennstate and PGC made study on deer..they said that only 2 adultdeer were killed out of hundreds tagged with collars etc by coyotes..only 2 ..

THEY said that only reason those 2 died is because they were weak..

your TRUTH and FACTS tells it like it is and SPROUL also reports the TRUTH..


they say deer are starving here in pa and coyotes are not problem..they say the doe are not having fawns do to HABITAT, when coyotes are killing fawns, we seen it and witnessed by 17 bass fisherman in tournament in june,i was there..we saw 2 coyotes herd deer ,6 doe and 2 fawns..they pushed the deer to water and the adult doe swam accross lake to other side,then the 2 coyotes killed the 2 fawns..this was witnessed by 17 bass fisherman..

oh , i forgot, PENNSTATEstudy group says, NO DEER KILLED BY YOTES UNLESS STARVING..bobcats/bearskilled those deer,phil..

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I am not exactly sure what you want? I do know this happened on the St. Croix River at a spot called Spednic Falls. This is not a water fall as a dam down stream backed up over it years ago. These were discovered by the Maine Warden Service after a report was made by a couple trappers trapping, what was then Maines predator control program. ( Peta forced the state to end it ) The trappers reported finding 4 bucks up in the woods half eaten by the coyotes. The wardens sent a plane over and couldn't believe what they saw. So they sent in wardens, biologists and asstants, to recover them for a study. The bucks are not in this photo.

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I am not sure what the problem is but, I do not believe I had stated any such a thing. But, I did and will state the facts my friend. Nore did I say that the coyotes are bigger than Ohio"s. They are in the Northeast aren't they? I also believe you saw and responded to the photo I had posted earlier didn't you?

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ridge, every pile of yote poo i see always has a little deer hair in it,in spring,summer, fall..

predatorsare doing harm more than we think.
there has to be solution to yotes,poison may be answer, i dont know..

i saw picture of 26 yotes that were shot with dogs in mercer county ,pa. last month in 1 day or 2, 26 , thats unreal..why has yote explode in numbers so bad in last 10 years..we never saw yote for as long as i can remember back into 60,s and my dad said they never saw yote..

we never saw cougars, now cougars..i dont know if yotes kill fox but i am seeing less fox ,more yotes..

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Deer DO yard up in the winter but it is not for food, they yard up in an area that is protected from wind. Thats why they yard up in a low laying area.

The state of NH gave me maps of Deer yards in the state by my request so I can snipe coyotes. Your state will probably give you yours if you ask.

Now on to the questions at hand. I did some research and asked some people who know alot more than me. They to say the least are as amazed as I am at the thought that coyotes would "thrill kill" It is just not in their nature.

Phil, I understand that you don't can't get all the info on this happening. But without more photos and without seeing bite marks, method of killing and Etc. We just can't really say that this is the work of coyotes. As I said, I would put my $ on Wolves before coyotes.

Now, In your defense I will add this, Are coyotes bigger and badder in Maine than other places?? I have to agree with Phil to some degree.

I have hunted coyotes there, I was in Eustis and all coyotes that I called in were no more that 20-25 yards from me and 1 was no more than six feet. They all were very aware of me and my partner as each one looked right at me and the caller. It didn't matter what time of day or night, they always came in straight without winding us and without a care in the world. Coyote hunting is pretty popular in the area so it wasn't like they were not pressured.

In NH (same basic yotes) I have called them in to 10 feet during locating outings. They one that came in at 10 feet still came in even though we were standing in a small field talking and my buddy was smoking a butt.
I shined my sure fire right into the coyotes eyes and it didn't budge until it turned around and walked about 30 feet and turned towards us again.

They are less affraid than other areas.

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I can only add to this is that 5 coyotes were shot at the scene. The game wardens stated it was done by coyotes, and the fact Maine only has a few wolves that the wardens says wandered here and travel through. But, most of us disagree with that. The problem here is more of a fact that the deer yard up by water. They do this because of forestry practice. They can only cut so close to Lakes and rivers here. That in turn leaves old growth trees for the deer to yard in next to the ice. Sure there is a few cedar swamps that have not been cut yet. They also hold a few deer that are yarded up as well. But for the most part it the ones by the water that get hit the hardest as once they hit the ice.... Well, you can see what can happen.

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Yeah, The state of NH says there are No wolves in the state. :D

We know better than that!


P.s. Of course coyotes were shot at the scene, there was a free buffet!!!

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Yard means that they gather in a herd in open meadow areas. There is safety in numbers generally. They also keep warm that way too. With all the hooves walking around, it would make for easier digging through the snow looking for food.

This is a common practice in heavy snow areas and in mountainous areas.

Emery

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Have killed many hundreds of western coyotes. It is a myth that coyotes do not pack up. In the area that ihunt you can hear and see them getting packed up in the late evening.i often see them in packs chasing deer.Here you see one once in awhile thatcame out second best in a fight with a hog.Killed two out of a pack of four about one month ago.

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Here when the deer yard up it is to find shelter from the storms as well as to create trail systems to move around in when looking for food. These trail systems allow them to go through snow better. As when the snow gets deep they have there own paths. also when the snow is crusty on top it cuts the deer's leggs up, and the paths helps them avoid alot of that. But with coyotes the crusty snow is a problem as the deer will break through and the coyotes run on top making it easier for the coyotes to catch the deer.

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Thanks alsagr, this is a photo of coyotes taken out of that area last year. The biologist say that wolves would drive coyotes away? But, here they also claim they have been bred with wolves? Anyhow here is the photo from last year.

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Coyotes are NOT pack animals.

Yes Wolves will drive out the coyotes in no time.

And it has been proven the eastern coyotes have red wolf blood.

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"The biologist say that wolves would drive coyotes away?"

Could be that this is the case. Then you are left with a much worse evil than yotes.

"Coyotes are NOT pack animals."

Do not set there at your computer and tell me that. How many coyote hunts have you been on?

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"Anyhow here is the photo from last year."

Fine bunch of coyotes. i've never met the guy but the champion coyote killer in OK is a man who fell out of a tree stand and was stabbed by an arrow in his quiver. He was incapacitated and could not move. When it got dark the yotes moved in and started nipping at him. Some folks rescued the hunter and now he is a coyote killing machine.

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I have been on many many coyote hunts, the most I or anyone that I know has called in is 2.

I know things are different in different parts of the country, but just because you may have called in a bunch at a time does not mean that they are pack animals!

They are not pack animals because they are to territorial, they have a family group that belongs to a specific area and defend it against other coyotes. They family group is always dispersed and the dispersed coyotes have to find there own grounds. Sometimes they will go hundreds of miles to find unclaimed territory.

go to a coyote specific hunting site and ask if coyotes are pack animals and see what you get for answers, I think that you will find that the answers will be the same as mine.

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That may be the case there but, what time of year and how much food supply they have along with a few other variables can change their so called normal behavior.

Again if this is the case and yes I am well aware of this myself, then how the heck did they breed. This goes against the theory that wolves drive them out doesn't it? Were they crossed bred and the stocked in our areas that face the coyote problems we have now? Was this done on purpose to replace the history of wolves here? I am not sure but it sure sounds like they have made a change somewhere along the line.

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quote:
That may be the case there but, what time of year and how much food supply they have along with a few other variables can change their so called normal behavior.

so your tellin me that what they have for food supply and time of year causes them to be pack animals?? I think it is merely behavior changes do to circumstances. A pack animal is that because of instinct. As I said, coyotes have family groups and kick members out and defend against outsiders often. That doesn't sound like an animal that wants to be part of a pack to me. Guys, coyotes are not pack animals!

quote:
Again if this is the case and yes I am well aware of this myself, then how the heck did they breed. This goes against the theory that wolves drive them out doesn't it? Were they crossed bred and the stocked in our areas that face the coyote problems we have now? Was this done on purpose to replace the history of wolves here? I am not sure but it sure sounds like they have made a change somewhere along the line


How the heck did they breed??? It sounds lt goes against the theory?? Well it does but somewhere along the lines the red wolf and coyote found the time for a quicky. Think of coydogs, typically a coyote will attack a companion dog or visa versa, so where did the coydog come from?? And the weird thing is, typically (as far as I know) coyotes and companion dogs are in heat and breed at different times. I have read that the window of opportunity for a coyote and companion dog to mate is very very small.

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"go to a coyote specific hunting site and ask if coyotes are pack animals and see what you get for answers, I think that you will find that the answers will be the same as mine."

i do not need the advice of some coyote "expert"since i have successfully killed many hundred of the suckers. Called in as many as seven at one time. Do not set up in Maine and tell me about coyotes. For every coyote you have there we have a hundred here.

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alsagr: If you are talkin to me, then I am not in Maine. It would be nice to be in Maine because their coyote population is better than ours.

As far as for every coyote we shoot you have many more. Again I agree. OK is way more predator rich than the NE, hands down.

And if you really did call in 7 at 1 time then great. But, just because you have shot alot of coyotes and they come running to your best impression of a dieing rabbit doesn't mean you know everything about coyote behaviour. Very few people do and I am not one of them. What it does mean though, is that ya'll must have some very hungry coyotes around there.

I have talked to hunters in OK and have a dvd that was shot in OK. I have seen and been told about the differences between here and there.

But, that is not the issue at hand. The issue is, are coyotes pack animals or not?? I say no.

You say you don't need to ask any coyote "expert" since you have killed hundreds, everyone can always learn something new regardless of what they think they know.

If you would like, I can give you names and numbers of some established OK coyote hunters that you can call and even hunt with. Maybe you can get yourself in their next video.

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Is that why some of them have wolve bloodlines that are growing stronger because of a quicky? But, even if it was just a quicky wouldn't those lines grow thinner and thinner until they fade away?

If they are not pack animals then why has if been reported that a pack of coyotes have tried to attack people here. It has been said to have happened more then once. Is that because some have stronger wolf genes inthem ?

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I think you people are getting the words "pack" and family group or group confused.

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That may be the case here as when you see a group of them together we call it a pack though it maybe a family group.

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Depends on your definition of "pack animals." Do coyotes usually run in packs? The answer is definitely not.
Do coyotes sometimes "pack up?" The answer is a definite yes. i hogor deer hunt at least two evenings every week in the same area.Usually call a littleat dusk. Coyotes often start their talking and soon three or four are in a group hunting. About a month ago i shot two out of a group of four.Withouttrying veryhard i have killed over 60 coyotesin the past eight months while hunting hogs and/or deer.Also killed two nice deer and a bunch of hogs.

Used to operate a tractorbrushogging lanes ina large range area. Coyotes would gather on both sides of the machine as it moved along. They would go after rabbits that the machine scared up. Took advantage of this and zapped several coyotes until they wised up. Recentlya friend called in four coyotes at once.All came from the same direction.It is not unusual to call in three or four at once here.

Hunt here with two other folks, one has wolfhounds and the other one hunts coyotesalmost every day by calling.Currently it is illegal in OK to hunt coyotes at night with the aidofa light. i do wish that they would change this. Somefolks do it anyway on private property.

Get those coyotes.

RE: The Sickening Trueth About.....
 

That's full of inaccuracies, like many post in this thread are. The basic idea however, is true that coyotes are not pack animals by nature. They do use pack mentality (Everyday) and in some areas their hunting practices must be adjusted for the size of game they are taking. In conditions like those described above, of severe weather and big game yarding, coyotes will come together to hunt. Hell, they'll come together for a lot less. Across the Midwest my friends and I have regularly seen (and/or called in) groups of 4-8 and family structure wasn't an issue. In fact- dispersal isn't a sure bet at all. Some leave early, some leave late and some hang out for another year... to say coyotes ALWAYS do ANYTHING is a reach.

That said; I have serious doubts the scene pictured was the result of coyote attack. Pictures of hounded coyotes rarely equate to coyote knowledge- and the whole flavor of this thread is anti-coyote so things may be getting twisted a tad.

PS: 80 pound coyotes do inhabit the Northeast. There are a handful of studies done on the DNA taken from NE coyotes that show anywhere from 50-90% matches with the resident wolves. The size of pups increased almost immediately when wolves arrived in those areas.

I saw a 72 pound coyote trapped in Indiana two years ago.

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Anyone has a right to doubt this if they want, but, if you want more info check with the State of Maine Fish and Wildlife Service on this issue. You will find out in fact that this was the result of coyotes so believe what you want to believe.