help! - first fox hunt tonight
 

I am so excited. I saw two fox very early this morning where I'll be calling tonight. My dad and I will be going out tonight for the first time and I could really use some advice. We will be located along a fence row which faces out toward a large open field, has a large woods up to the left and a small woods along a railroad track to the right. There is a standing cornfield behind us. If my dad and I sit together to light the field in front of us, which is the ideal direction for the wind? We are using shotguns so I don't have the luxury of a rifle's distance. Thank you in advance.

RE: help! - first fox hunt tonight
 

first off welcome to the board,your set up sounds good but don't expect the fox to cross that open field.reds will very rearly cross an open field to responed to a distress call,grays on the other hand just might.they will most likly trot down the hedge row your sitting in.the only thing i don't like about your set up is the standing corn to your back.if the wind is blowing to the corn,your going to get busted long before you see anything.if the wind is blowing to the open field expect the fox to run along side the hedge row and at any where from 50 to 100 yards trot out into the open field trying to wind and see the sourse of the sound.then again they may fallow the hedge row right to you.always give fox some cover to get within shooting distance of you,a hedge row is perfect.if the wind is blowing with the hedge row,don't hunt there.if this is the only stand site you have set up,you need to set up many more.even if you sit each stand for 30 min or so,if you only have 1 or 2 stands your fox hunt will be short.its also good to rotate stands,try to not hunt the same location twice in a row.over hunting the same location only serves to educate the predators in that area.night hunting fox is alot of fun,enjoy and shoot straight.

RE: help! - first fox hunt tonight
 

Thanks for the tips. I have 9 stands set up for the morning. We are starting at 2:30 AM. I have a few more farms to locate more stands so I hope we get something. I bought a hat light called the mighty max. It sure doesn't seem bright enough with the amber lens on. I also bought a light that fits on the shotgun. I sure hope this works.

As for my first stand, I didn't think the fox would come across the open field. If they won't come across the open field then I wonder why did I see the one in the field this morning? Who knows. So from your experience you think that most times the fox will circle downwind from where we are calling? If I am calling with a large open field to my back and the all of the cover is in front of me, won't the fox want to sneak up through the cover instead of exposing itself? This is a different stand tonight where there is a medium sized trash pile located 30 yards from an marshy overgown fild with with a small woods in dispersed beyond the field. The wind is blowing from the woods, across the marshy, overgrown field to the trash pile in the open field. Sorry for all of the questions, I'm just nervous and excited about tonight. I'm afraid that I will blow this opportunity. LOL

Kevin

RE: help! - first fox hunt tonight
 

If you want real excitement hunt the foxes with a Jack Russell Terrier. A lot of digging but it's comparable to coon hunting with hounds. The terriers are so worked up that they scream.

Dan O.

RE: help! - first fox hunt tonight
 

you miss understood me when i said a fox crossing an open feild.fox will mouse in a low cut open grass feild all the time,what i said is they are less likly to cross that same feild responding to a distress call.your light dosn't need to be bright all you have to see is there eyes reflecting back at you.it takes very little light for that to happen.a good way to see how and get used to it is tie your dog out or use a neighbors and get around 100 yards away on a dark night.this will show you how little light it takes to see a pair of eyes.fox will circle you but not to the extent that a coyote does.if a fox does try to circle he will likly try it much closer to your location then a coyote would.this doesn't mean you don't need to use the wind,becouse you do.a fox will always utilize any availible cover to get as close to the call sound as possible.if your sitting in a large thicket with little visabilty theres a good chance your not going to see the fox coming,you will hear it but you won't see to shoot.hedgerows,fencelines,drainage ditches etc.narrow pieces of cover they can fallow right into your lap.don't worry about mistakes,we all make them.every mistake you make,makes you a better hunter.your less likly to make that same mistake again.

Edited by - coyoteseeker on 11/09/2002 04:52:41

RE: help! - first fox hunt tonight
 

I couldn't respond for awhile because I got a very nast computer virus and had to reformat. What a pain. Anyhow, here is what happened with the fox calling. I called for the fox at first light. The wind was in my face and there was standing corn behind me. There was a brushy semi-open field in front, separated from me by a fence row 20 yards in front of me. There were woods to the right and left. I called for about 25 minutes, using the pause button to stop the CD. I saw nothing so I stopped, sat still for a bit and then slowly stood up to check out behind me in the corn. I noticed the was a path of the standing corn that had been removed so I stepped back there to scope it out. I was standing there for about 2 minutes when I heard the corn moving ahead of me. Hear comes a red fox trotting down in a rown of standing corn. It ran right by me. I wound up shooting 3 times and missed with each one. I'm so mad at myself because I should never have shoot. It was too close and at a bad angle going away from me. Now it will never come to a call.

I then went night calling last night. I was in a perfect location and there had been fox sightings. I perched myself on a knoll that overlooked a overgrown marshty stream area. I was calling for about 5 minuts when I saw a set of eyes 80 yards out looking at me. It moved a bit but after 25 minuts, it never came closer. What a bummer. I will sit in tighter cover next time and see how this works. I am so frustrated right now with myself and calling. I feel like a complete idiot, but I'll do it all over again. LOL I'm still not clear on the wind thing. Do you call into the wind or with it? It seemsed as if that fox came behind me downwind. I would never have known.

Kevin

RE: help! - first fox hunt tonight
 

Hi arctek. I hunt fox all the time. What I have come up with is...you need the wind blowing from you to the fox. The fox will almost always try to scent you. Every single time I have called one in, they circled me till they could get smell of me and where I was. Make sure you use cover scent. Make sure you use it right. Dont use evergreen scent in a corn field where there are no evergreens. Its just common sense. If there isnt any wind, thats good too. What makes it even more exciting is when you have two or more foxes trying to locate your calls. I hunt with a bow in a tree or on the ground and its very exciting. I had a fox last year, walk 3 feet from me. Thats no bull****. I had on my cover scent, I was sitting in a group of willow trees in a marshy area, my shot gun this time. I heard something behind me but didnt move. Then I saw it out of the corner of my eye. The fox was looking straight at me. Just be curious as what I was. And the wind was blowing right to left and he was left to me. He had no idea what I was. So he walked in front of me, and I made the mistake of him catching my movement and he started to get a little nervous. He walked about 10 yards from me as as soon as I pulled the trigger, he turned away from me and I missed him. I never seen an animal haul ass as fast as he did. I even have the same fox on tape from December of last year. I use a rabbit distree call and mouse call, mouth calls. I have never once went after him and not had him come back to me. They will always come back. These are red fox im hunting. Fox are so nosey and curious. They will work an area for hours till they find where the call is coming from. When you think their gone, trust me, their not gone, their somewhere very close to you. I thought the one I was hunting had left, so I strated calling again, I didnt see him. So just for the heck if it, I looked behind me, as what do ya know, there he was jsut looking at me, like, you think Im stupid or something, then he was gone. I went back the very next day and got him back again, but I wasnt hunting him, just calling. So anyways, you will get him eventually. Sometimes, Id rather not even shoot them, just hunting them gets me going. I love it, expecially with a bow because you have to be so quiet and move without them see you. Feed them too. They love corn. I watch them eat all the time when im in the stand. I wish I could show you the video. Where do you live at? Im from Kentucky. anything else I can help you with let me know....

Squirrel Master

RE: help! - first fox hunt tonight
 

Saw the Fox calling post and thought I'd ring in with my 2 cents . I used to hunt foxes very hard with a friend of mine , but now due to work , kids , fur prices , and loss of hunting area we just go out the first night every year .
Last night was the first night here in Ohio and we started at midnight .Due to the late start we only made about 15 stops killing 4 greys ( 2 singles and 1 double ).
I think the most important key to having a good night for greys is to cover alot of ground and make a bunch of calls .
20 5 minute stops will always be better than 5 20 minute calls .After you get used to seeing foxes coming with a red light you can tell if it's a fox , dog , or cat pretty easy so we just shoot them with a dim red light .
After years of shooting and trapping hundreds of foxes the best advise I can give anyone on greys is never take more than 2 from your spots and those spots will produce year after year .
Have fun and be careful
Scott Zumbro

RE: help! - first fox hunt tonight
 

like i said in the earlyer post"the corn being down wind will present problems" and as you found out,it did.that fox did come from behind you(downwind)becouse your set up aloud him to.never hunt a set up with heavy cover on the down wind side that comes right tight to your location.most times a predator will wind you and leave without you knowing he was there,somtimes they will run you over becouse of the heavy cover,assuming your scent management is working.then your presented with that hurried up shot.as far as that fox never coming to a call again,he will just give him a few day to mellow out.the fox that hung up on you may have cought some movment,this could be why he held back.next time that happens,use a mouse squeeker or kiss the palm of your hand(with your glove off)this will intice him to come closer to investagate.somtimes they will come at a dead run so be ready.as a general rule on a calm or mildly breezy day you call into the wind(wind in your face)somtimes on real windy days you can call with the wind(wind at your back)this helps get the call sound to carry farther.blowing into a stiff wind your sound will not carry to far.then again real windy days are not the best time to call up predators.as with most wildlife,there movments are at a minamum on real windy days.i just reread your statement"after 25 min it moved a bit but never came any closer"the fact is(if he was up wind of you)he may have circled to the down wind side of you trying to get a nosefull of what you were.or he could have just lost interest.mouse squeeking,its that close in coaxer call that works almost every time.just be sure to not let him see you moving.if the squeeker dosn't do it,rustle the leaves with you foot along with the mouse squeeker.most times will find this totaly irresistable(sp)and come charging in.don't let that frustration make you quit,stick with it and it will begin to get easyer as time goes on.

RE: help! - first fox hunt tonight
 

Man, I just don't know what to think. I have been calling on farms where I know there are red fox. I just missed one several days ago, but haven't had anything come in since. I know there are trappers on these farms also and it has been rather warm. My question is, do you guys average a fox every night or day you go out? I'm sure I've been setting up good stands. I am about as odorless as you can get, use a cover scent, have the wind now blowing from my back towards where I expect to shoot, have called morning and at night, and I'm camo'ed up to the hilt. I just expected more action then this. I'm going to keep trying and see what happens.

RE: help! - first fox hunt tonight
 

Well, maybe this is why I haven't seen anything lately. I just found out that I should call into the wind, not with it. I thought that since predators often slip around down wind, you should call that direction. The thing is, if your back is to down wind, then I don't see how you can see anything behind you or even shoot if something moves back there. Now if I put an open field to my back down wind, then maybe fox won't be so willing to expose themselves to get downwind. Why then would a fox come in if they can't scent you? It seems as if your damned if you do and damned if you don't. I'm going back out tonight. The moonlight is killing me though since it seems to render my red light almost worthless yet the moon light is not bright enough to see things. I guess if it was an easier matter there would be nothing to call in a very short period of time. :)

RE: help! - first fox hunt tonight
 

the reason you call into the wind is becouse you have to assume any predator coming in from the down wind side is going to bust you and leave the area long before a shot pressents its self.call into the wind trying to spark the interest of a predator up wind, and if your setup is right you will catch him sneaking to the down wind side.this is the theory behind it but of caurse it dosn't always work out this way,sometimes it works better,sometimes its dosn't work at all.to answer the question,does every body get a fox every time out,not hardly.some days they just don't respond,there are many reasons for this and not all of them are a hunters mistakes.its just the way it is.if you have many,many stand sets that you can hit in one outing you up your chances of bagging at least one.then suddenly you will catch a night where every stand set they run you over from all directions trying to get that rabbit.

Edited by - coyoteseeker on 11/15/2002 04:34:42

RE: help! - first fox hunt tonight
 

coyoteseeker,
Do you find certain times of the night to be more consistent for reds vs greys?
With greys being the more dominant animal (even tho smaller on average)if I'm seeing quite a few Reds on a particular farm during daylight hours can I assume that the GRey population is low, or that the Reds are hunting during the daylight hours to avoid conflicts with the Greys?

I hope you don't mind me picking your brain.......Its been a few years since I've fox hunted seriously, I know the basics pretty well as far as set-up wind, dim lights, slow scan etc etc. but after years of doing this I STILL haven't figured out the quirks between the Red and Greys and how to call to each seperately and successfully.
I've whacked greys hard w/ Pup distress calls throughout the season and with rabbit distress later thru winter, but have had very little luck when trying just for reds.
Any thoughts?

RE: help! - first fox hunt tonight
 

matt,i don't find that a perticular time of night is better for either,but what does matter is terrain.the reds and grays generaly hunt different types of ground,the reds prefer more open grassy(tall)type feilds with thick intersecting hedge rows and crop feilds.while prefering large old growth wood lots to bed and den in.the grays prefer thick,swampy low land type areas,over grown fields with tall,thick bushes and sapplings.they will also be found in young wood lots with thick under growth.this of caurse is a broad generalization of the two spieces,at times they both can be found any where at any time.you don't see grays during daylight becouse they just don't make a habbit of roaming around during daylight hours.generaly that 30 min period from sunset to darkness and first light to sunrise is about all the daylight traveling a gray will do.this of caurse will change under extremly harsh winter conditions,they will move from pure nessesity and survival.you must remember that a red feeds primaraly on mice,mouls,vouls,small birds and the like,while grays primary food source is rabbits or in the case of a gray,what ever he can get a hold of.a gray will feed on rotten road kill or spoiled carrion any time of year while a red will only do this during harsh winter months.all predators are opertunistic feeders during winter months of cold and snow.when targeting reds only look for farms with crop feilds divided by hedge rows with intersecting grass feilds,mowed or unmowed it dosen't matter but unmowed is better with large wood lots near by.in other words any place that would harbor large numbers of mice and other small varmints.if grays are the domonent spieces in your area they will also be in this type of area.another thing to concider is if your not seeing reds in a particular area it may not be from conflicts with grays but rather conflicts with coyotes.a coyote will kill and eat a red on sight,the reds know this and generaly avoid any areas inhabbited by coyote.now the question at hand is why don't they kill grays?? well they do somtimes but don't make a habbit of it.this could be from the shear meaness and aggressivness of a gray.its no dought that a gray would be harder to handle then a red,even for a coyote.i have many times been coyote huntin at night with a coyote killing a rabbit tape playing and have a gray come charging in to get that rabbit.its mind boggling to think that that a gray would accualy think he's going to steal that rabbit from a coyote,go figure.well i hope this helps a little in figuring your stratagies for fox.good hunting,be safe and have fun.

Edited by - coyoteseeker on 11/17/2002 08:43:51

RE: help! - first fox hunt tonight
 

thats interesting ridge runner,can't begin to explain that.as far as volume your absolutly right,reds are very volume sensitive.thats a very good point and could be one more reason why matt/pa is having more grays then reds responding.

RE: help! - first fox hunt tonight
 

Threw a big shut-out last night.......First time in a new area and I think I just picked the wrong call. It was sort of what looked like to me as a "Transition" type cover......one of those managed game lands where they stock pheasants, a combination of cultivated fields , but surrounded for the most part with woods and thick brushy draws. I was thinking greys, but the more I spooked around it was very agricultural in spots.
I went with a grey fox pup in distress for the first 4-5 set-ups and saw NOTHING, not even a blink of an eye. Switched over to a baby cottontail at a medium volume for the next sets about 1/2mile away, but I got "Mooned"......my dim light and that super bright full moon just weren't cutting it so I called it a night and didn't want to disturb more spots. I'm gonna wait for the darkest darn night I can find next time out, I just have ZERO confidence calling on such a bright night. I use such a dim red light that it was barely lighting up my boots in that moon.

Coyoteseeker,
What call would you recommend for a new area such as this where I'm not really sure what the majority fox is for that cover? I really want to start picking off reds on a regular basis, but i'll take whatever happens to be within earshot. Baby Cottontail OK? and I imagine low to mid volume at about 10 minutes per call on a calm night would be best?

I tried to force set-ups where a fox (red or grey) would have to either travel a hedgerow to me or circle out and around to another opening in order to try to get downwind of the call.

RE: help! - first fox hunt tonight
 

I am fairly new to calling, couple years experience, but here is an observation. i know reds are supposed to be tougher to call yet even being new I've called them in just as much if not more than grays. I use a woodpecker tape and they really like it. When i play my gray fox pup I rarely see anything. I know 1st thought is there musn't be many grays, but while archery hunting I see grays way more than reds. They are there, unless many others are calling grays specifically and they are used to the pup tape? I have learned a lot from listening to you coyoteseeker, and the others both here and on some other boards. it took me a long time to figure foxes out.

RE: help! - first fox hunt tonight
 

on moon lit nights(expecialy with snow cover)i have never had good luck.when the moon is 1/2,3/4 or full i stay home and keep the wife happy.somtimes on moonless nights with snow cover i like to hunker down in a hedge row,call and wait for one to run by.this tactic works good but you have to hide good or they will pick you.half volume on a call box for reds is way to much volume.i should have mentioned this earlyer in this topic but it just completely slip my mind.thanks to ridge runner he reminded me of this very important thing when calling reds.always(regardless if using call box or hand calls)start off your calling low,about #2 on the call box dial.if theres a red within a couple of hundred yards of your location and you come on with super volume he will spook or just sit down and watch never to come in.run the tape at around 2 for 2 to 4 min,if nothing shows raise the volume to around 3 maybe 4 for 10 to 30 seconds and then slowly drop it back down to 2 or less.never get ratical or jerky with the volume switch and never turn off the call box in the middle call burst.wait for a pause then turn the volume down then turn it off.if theres wind,highway noise or anything like that a little more volume maybe nessassary,common sence will go a long way here.stay each stand 15 to 30 min and move on.i like to stay around 30 at each stand some guys leave after 15.when hunting at night just make sure there isn't one sitting and watching you.after you stop calling wait a few min and then kiss the palm off your hand,this will get anything thats hung up to look at you and you should be able to pick there eyes with your light.as far as gray fox pup for reds,never had any luck with it either.stick with rabbit,rodents and as wimp says,woodpecker or any small bird in distress.alot of guys like the yellow hammer wood pecker tape.reds are very finicky and very shy somtimes,loud and aggressive calling at times will turn them off.finnessing them with soft calling will always produce more then loud calling.matt/pa your on the right track as far as forcing set ups,make them go where you can see them.

RE: help! - first fox hunt tonight
 

Hello again,

These moonlit nights have not been good to me since it seems that I stand out like a sore thumb, even with the camo. It has been fun none the less. Anyhow, my question is regarding coyotes. I will be calling for them up at deer hunting camp. Does the volume thing apply for coyotes as well? Also, I heard that you should spend more time at the stand, some say 1 hour or longer for eastern coyotes. Does this mean you are calling that long or calling for the first 20 and sitting out the rest. I ask because I heard that the coyote tends to slowly sneak in under cover.

Thanks

Kevin

RE: help! - first fox hunt tonight
 

the volume thing does not apply to coyote,within reason of caurse.the volume used is about the same as used for gray fox,they both like it a bit louder.i think sitting a stand for an hour only cuts into your calling time at other stand sites.the only time i sit a stand longer then 20 to 40 min is when the snow is deep(it takes them longer to get to ya)or if i see that one has hung up out of range or in a bad spot for a shot.somtimes a coyote will bust in like a gray other times they may take there time.but in most cases if there going to responed they will be to ya in 15 min or less.what makes the coyote more diffacult to hunt then fox is there abilty to detect anything out of the ordanary,there abilty to sence danger.they are in tune like no other critter in the woods,even more so then a mature buck.you will not get away with many of the things(mistakes) you can get away with when fox hunting.and if the coyote has been educated thats is worked before and expecialy if he's been shot at,all bets are off.you most likly won't out smart or beat him.pay close attention to every possible detail in your set up,wind direction,is your outline broken up,are you skylined,is your truck visable from your stand,did you make to much noise going to the stand and so on.these details must not be over looked if you want to be succsessfull.always set up a stand site so he has to expose himself trying to get on to the down wind side of you.a yearling pup might come in with little regard to wind direction but a mature alfa will never have little regard for anything.don't take him lightly and don't take it personaly when he makes a fool of you.for instance sneaks in behind you and at 20 deet lets out a howl or starts yipping and you had no clue he was there.its one of those go home and change your shorts times....<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>