moutain lion and cougar
 

i know this sounds stupidis it possable to find a moutain lion or a cougar or a panther in ohio kentucky and indiana the storys are going around may be they sre storys may be they are true or maybe u can tell me
i know about the bobcats those are true

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

Noone is jumping on this, so I will chime in. If the locals say they saw a cougar, I would not doubt them. It is a whole lot bigger than a linx or bobcat. But the population is a whole lot higher out west. At one of the local hunting stores, a guy shot a #165 cat in Colorado, handgun hunting. I track cougar range because I jog (they can call me back up to age 60) and would thus be on the lunch menu. There has been 1 report in Iowa lately. They eat joggers and bikers in Calif. on what appears to be a regular basis.

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

As far as biologists are concerned (I am one also), the cougars NA range typically doesn't include those states you mentioned. However, it is possible that one could have wandered down from WI, MI, or PA. I have my serious doubts however. This has been an ongoing controversy for several years and there has yet to be any verifiable evidence such as a carcass or high quality photograph, despite the efforts of a number of interested individuals. The best thing to do would be to check with your local state wildlife agency.

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

The scientific community has developed a reputation over the past 20-30 years for being inaccurate, deceitful and down right dishonest when things come up that they have no easy answers for. If one of their own doesn't confirm something they have a tendency to pooh-pooh all other evedence, anecdotal or otherwise and tell people that something doesn't exist. I believe that if a population of anything exists in an area thatisn't large enough to be a breeding population, biologist have a tendency to ignore it and state that it just isn't there. Plaster casts of prints are either called inconclusive or useless, photos are nearly always of too poor a quality to determine the species. The list of excuses goes on and on. There is always the old "Escaped from captivity or turned loose by owner" story too. Just because an animal may have escaped or been turned loose, does not alter the fact that it is present in an area. Breeding populations of native animals get the interest and funds for studies and management and all others are relegated to the nuisance category. You ask for verifiable evidence such as a carcass or skeletal remains, anybody that spends any time in the woods knows that carcasses of even animals that are common to an area, such as deer, are not something you walk up on every time you go out. Nature has a way of having this evidence removed in a fairly short time in most instances, including bones and skulls. All of North America, well into Canada, Central America and South America were the range of the Mountain Lion at one time, why it is so difficult for the Scientific community to accept the existance of these animals, in whatever numbers, today in areas that offer even minimal habitat is beyond comprehension.

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

Well, you answered your own question. Where there exists minimal habitat we would assume that there wouldn't be a breeding population but possibly a transient animal or a few animals moving through. These things have a way of becoming apparent if there is indeed a breeding population. A cat would get hit by a car or someone would tree a cat or some other suchinstance would occur. I'm the first to admit thatlack of evidence doesn't mean they aren't there but until we know for sure, we use the best information available to make management decisions.

Also, sightings and other types of subjective evidence are not used in making management decisions. If Joe-bob thinks he sees a cougar, we can't go spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to look at cougars in an area just because he thinks he saw one. That would be irresponsible, we are after all, public servants first. Sightings like that have a nasty tendency to get out of hand and therefore are not considered reliable evidence (see Bigfoot).

"The scientific community has developed a reputation over the past 20-30 years for being inaccurate, deceitful and down right dishonest when things come up that they have no easy answers for."

Well if your going to fire off a rediculous statement like that I suggest being prepared to back it up with verifiable facts and case studies where you can objectively prove your statement. Funny how those "scientific" things like logic, objectiveness, and fact keep popping up. Hrrm could this be how logical people seek out truth? Gee, I guess it's possible...;)

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

We have had cougars in Michigan for some time now. The stupid DNR would not admitt to their existance yet they still made them illegal to shoot in the game book. It took a few years of spottings before they have even started to admitt they are around. I know a few people who have seen them and I myself have seen one once in Central Michigan (Remus area to be exact).

If the locals are saying they have seen them, they probably have.

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

So I suppose you believe in Bigfoot then? It's not as simple as you make it out to be. You can't just as a biologist say: "oh well we have cougars now so go head and open up the season on em". I don't know what you want them to do with so little information.

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

my dad and uncle saw one walking on the train tracks. i forget what it was. i think it was a bobcat. i live in ohio. also theres something up were i hunt at by my grandmaws house. they think its a cougar/mountain lion/bobcat

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

http://www.fws.gov/endangered/i/a/saa05.html

by the way, these are all the same species. North American cougar/mountain lion/panther/puma/whatever are all the same species Puma (or Felis) concolor

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

It doesn't matter if there is 1 or 1000 if the state does not recognize their existance in the state then they should not be illegal to shoot them. It would be like having a MI law against shooting Tigers or catching sharks.

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

I've seen a cougar here in southwestern Ohio. It was about 8 years ago or so. One of the neighbors found a scull in his back field the following spring. He took it to the park rangers office and they said it was a cougar scull and they had several reports of a cougar in the area. They said it was most likely just someone's pet that got loose.

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

The illusive Mountain Lion has been hot topic among hunters in Virginia for a long time mostly between older guys and youger ones. Such as me and my Dad he swears they are here and I don't actually I don't know of anyone that has seen more of them than my Dad?????? What partially brings question to my mind is Here in Va. it is tradition and a way of life to run deer with hounds and not one time have I heard of the dogs pushing a lion but Foxes and Bobcats...yes. 10 years ago we never heard of a Coyote around here but we are shooting them annually now (So there is some spreading and I guess lions could also)but one of the biggest question marks is that in our hunting regulations it states that "You can not harase molest, shoot or attempt to shoot a mountain lion" ? I still need to seeone to beleive it but I think it is possible anywhere.

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

"10 years ago we never heard of a Coyote around here but we are shooting them annually now " Odds are that the lions are expanding thier range. How far, or how quickly, is open to debate. I believe someone on another forum indicating they were opening a season on lions in Nebraska this year. Evidence is not always as abundant as one would think. The most I've seen of a lion out here in western Wyoming are tracks. We have plenty of the cats around, but I've never met anyone that has come across a carcass or skeletal remains. Given how many hunters there are out there in the fall, as well as a healthy population of lions, that is amazing. Probably a few escaped or released pets throughout the midwest and east, and probably a few pockets of wild animals as well.

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

I've talked to hunters in Wyoming who have seen lions out there.

moutain lion and cougar
 

I would like to think every one on there coments about the mountain lion

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

Hear female panthers hissing and purring
Purring
Hissing
Hear a female in captivity caterwauling in these Real Audio clips
Sound 1
Sound 2
Sound 3
Sound 4

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

I agree with Coastie. I was once told by at Wildlife Biologist that there were no Mt. Lions in TX, east of Junction, TX., and never had been. This was not only inaccurate but foolish. Mt. Lions are not as numerous east of Junction TX but they are definately there. The have been killed in Brownwood, Beeville, Refugio, Kerrville etc.
Most Biologist I know are long on class/book time and short on field experience. The exception to this is Bob Ramsey of Kerrville, TX. The greatest Biologist/hunter ever. If Bob tells you that Big Foot and Elvis will appear from a UFO on his ranch you'd better get your camera.

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

They are all over the place out here in California. The area I normally hunt just had a Mountain lion warning. The cat came all the way down onto the Cal State campus. Now I carry a nicebig forged stainless machette with walnut grips when I'm up in the canyon (comes in handy for the heavy foliage too). They say just to look big, shout, and wave your arms arounda lot, and maybe throw a few rocks at it,and the lion will usually run off. If not, whatever you doDON'T RUN! You can't outrun the lion, and bolting will only trigger its predatory instincts. Instead back away slowly without making any sudden movements.

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

Happens all the time to further their agenda, what ever that may be. Example http://www.cdfe.org/lynx_hoax_no_secret.htm

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

"I've talked to hunters in Wyoming who have seen lions out there."

Yeah, actually quite a few people see them (the local sporting goods store owner saw one about 2 miles east of town here yesetrday), but I am amazed that I've never met anyone who had come across a carcass or skeletol remains.

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

The DNR and local Biologist of my state of IL. said no way their is the big cats here well they take people as idiots then after a hunter shoots one with a bow then one gets hit by a train then another by a car then after doing studies on the remains they say now there here.

BrutalAttack
Correct me if Iam wrong thewolf being introduced back into the west could have a impact on the cats moving ? I once read by a biologistbe it true or not that wolves will push out the bigger preaditors . Could this be happing?


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RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

Wolves pushing out mountain lions? Now, that is an interesting question. Hmmm. I am heading up to the Chippewa next month... see if they have any cat activity. Now, greys they have. And bear. And grouchy moose.

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

what is probably happening is with the cat population rising in the west younger cats arepushedinto new territories that had no cats before looking for hunting lands of there own since mountian lions once prowled most of north america there's no reason that they couldn't reastablish themselves anywhere given proper food available i.e.deer or cattle. There's no fence around any state keeping them out

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

There was a paper done here at the university about a year ago that showed quite a bit of evidence that suggested wolves are pushing cougars around. In fact, they found that in some cases the wolves were activly killing cougars not just pushing them out. But the presence of wolves did affect a number of different aspects of cougar movements including their winter strategy.

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

Well I will follow this with interest. BTW, Brutalattack, if that is your MRS in the photo, she is quite the movie star.

I think Mrs Biscuit is a beautiful redhead but I can rarely get her to hold still for a photo. Doubt she would have any trouble shooting cougars if it was legal!

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

I was able to visit with a ranger in the Chippewa National Forest who said he was in tight with wolves and cougars up there. From his standpoint, he was not seeing that the wolves were affecting the cougar range, but he did not address other parts of the country. Males range quite a bit. They had a radio collar on one in N Dakota, and it went through the Chippewa and then headed up into Canada.

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

in Indiana there have been some reports of bobcats. none of them have ever had any evidence though. as for pumas lepords lions tigers and bears no way. also I could give a pumas hind quarters less about how bobcats and leperds are related

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

yeah and that's like saying every hunter is a slob because 5% are. Not logical.

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

I have seen two cougars here in Oklahoma. I have lived here all of my life and never saw one until recently. The first one was about three years ago when I was out duck hunting. I treed him on accident. It was still dark and I had a mag-lite. I shined the light on him and he let out this terrifying scream like roar. I've never heard anything like it. His teeth were showing and steam was coming out of his mouth. I don't think I've ever been more scared than that! I shot my gun in the air and scared him off. He was probably around 120 pounds or so. I never had any idea they were in Oklahoma until that moment.
My wife and I saw another one on the July 4th weekend of this year. We went out to my dad's place to gather some firewood for camping. I drove up over a hill in my truck and he was running across several hundred yards of open land to the woods. He was probably around 70 pounds. Definately a cougar.
I read an article last year about a cougar that was hit by a train about 60 miles north of Oklahoma City. It had a tracking collar on it. The collar had been attached only a few months earlier by researchers at the University of South Dakota. From there, it traveled into Wyoming when the tracking device stopped working. Nobody knew what happened to it until it showed up here in OK. They say they can travel up to 100 miles in one night and that they are in EVERY state except Hawaii.
All I know is that I wouldn't want to have to fight one. Have you ever tangled with a house cat? My wife's cat can really do some damage in a matter of seconds. I would hate to meet one 20 times his size. Matt

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

they are having a season for mountain lion up here in south dakota. They are really starting to spread out and have been seen in residential areas and farmers have lost some critters here lately. i think it is like 10-15 for the tag and they are trying to take 25. you cannot use dogs and there is something about if so many females are taken then they will shut it down early. also i think there is something about if a landowner takes one on his private land the lion will not count towards the 25 they want to take. im not sure of the details as i have not looked into it too much but i am glad they are doing it. thought about getting the tag because there has been some spotted around here but i personally never have seen one so i dont think i will get one. i heard about one they tracked from south dakota to wisconsin or somewhere. it just shows how far they can move.

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

when in the wilderness ..be prepared for ANYTHING.... HUNTING 101


BE SAFE....THERES WILD COUNTRY EVERYWHERE ..many things UNHEARD of. and ...UNSEEN........untilit is too late.....Dont be a victim

BE PREPARED OR STAY HOME

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

hezze, what state are you in?

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

About a year ago there was word about a mountain lion in our area. They kept saying that people were just seeing things. Track molds and DNA samples proved that there was. It killed my grandma's dog and a few nights before that deputy's were spot lighting the area because someone had reported seeing it nearby. Killed a good bit of small livestock, too.

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

in southeastern ohio.

RE: moutain lion and cougar
 

I'll tell you this much, Them cats are big and tuff, I mean real tuff. there are so many here in oregon I look around the corner of my house before I walk around. Why just the other night I jumped one laying on my boat. He jumped a 8 foot hi arbavita. Last year I was Elk hunting and ran into this guyThe first shot was in the center of the chest as he was looking stright at me and the second was in the side after a half hour tracking sesion yielded a very live and pissed Kitty