70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

Has anyone loaded the new 70gr tripple shock for their .223 yet? What types of groups are expected with a 1:12 twist 22" barrel?

My uncle can't shoot much over a .22 anymore for health reasons and I tought that this bullet might be a good low recoil option for whitetails.

How does the 60gr Nosler partition shoot out of this barrel? This gun will shoot the Nosler 55gr B-tip into a 1"group at 100 yards, would the 60gr be very close to this?

Thanks
Tom

RE: 70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

Wow! Didn't know they were making a .224 X bullet this heavy. The 1:12 twist isn't going to stabilize this bullet - you will probably need a 9" twist. This could have some real potential for medium big game out of one of the bigger cased .22 centerfires . . . . . .

RE: 70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

Due to the length factor involved in a all copper bullet, a 9 twist may not even be enough. You may need to push it really fast to work in a 9 twist.

What I can say is that it won't work in a 12. don't see how it could.

That being said the X bullet is not a typical bullet and if you can get any of the 50 grain range bullets to shoot, they will hold together well. Its another option anyway.

Jeff

RE: 70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

I agree, I don't think that the 1:12 twist would stabilize a bullet of that length. Looking in their reloading manual, they show the 50 and 55 grain regular X bullets for deer sized game. Good luck on finding a load!

RE: 70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

Cabelas is selling the bullets in their shooting catalog this year. Does anyone have any experience with the .224 60gr Nolser partition? How do they shoot out of a 1:12 barrel?

RE: 70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

I think you might be better off with one of the smaller grain triple shocks. The 53 grain does pretty good in my A-bolt, which has a 9" twist barrel. Terminal performance on those bullets seems to be exceptional so far.

RE: 70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

To many people believe what they read! I have a 223 in a 1-12 twist and it shoot anything very accurate,except the 69 grain sierra. I talk to Ralph whom owns barnes bullets before this came out on the market,because i was hunting and killing deer,and wild pigs with mine in the 70 gr Speer ssp bullets which are real good. He sent me a bx of the triple shock x bullets. They work great,just as he said they would.I use the sam loads for them as i did the speer bullets I use them only for hunting if i ewre you because of the cost.Or buy the speer 70gr ones they are cheaper and word really good also. Don,t believe all that crap on twist formulas ect.Yhey are wrong. vangunsmith

RE: 70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

vangumsmith:
1. Shoot us a pic of groups with both 70s and 69s. I'd love to see that comparison. And does your 12 twist actually measure 12?

2. I've got more barrel time in 223 rifles than most folks would ever believe. I've shot everthing from 14 twist to 6 twist and find it extremely hard to think a barrel would shoot a 70 Barnes but not a shorter and slightly lighter 69 match grade projectile. Though X bullets are a super hunting bullet they can be a bit finicky in rifles. While on the other side of the coin I've yet to see a properly twisted 223 not shoot 69 SMK into .75 moa or less all the way out to 600 yards under calm conditions.

3. BTW what Ralph did Randy and Connie sell to? One downfall of living right out here in the country is being behind on the news. At least I'm still happily sitting on top of my own 600 yard range. Its a trade off I want to keep, regardless the speed of changing news.

4. Which twist formula do you use if the others are wrong? Or do we just take a guess nowdays? Let us have a hot link to the correct formula.

5. I need to hunt where you do if its too expensive to use good bullets for hunting. You must shoot a ton of animals a year! Even I can afford a couple of boxes a year and that would be at least 100 animals. And I'm on a rural salary scale!

6. BTW whats the OAL length on that stubby little speer 70 vs the X in 70 grains? I think I've got some speer stashed here but haven't seen the Triple Shocks in 70 grain and don't know their length for sure. If they are representative of other X offerings they have to be longer than the Speer for sure. Length is a factor in stabilization. I have yet to see a barrel stabilize a longer and heavier projectile and not a shorter lighter one. Even my safe full of 6.5 twist 3 groove tubes stabilize from 90s down to 52s.

IMWTK

RE: 70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

The 60 gr. Partition should be just on the "good" side of stable - if the gun is a true 1:12. I had a 12 twist gun (.223) about 15 years ago that was really marginal with the 60 gr. Nosler solid base. Turns out the actual twist was around 1:12.2.

Stability also depends to a lesser degree on temperature, barometric pressure, and (of course) velocity. As our military found out with the original A-1 M-16's, conditions in the artic caused the 55 gr. FMJ military ball rounds to tumble out of a 1:14 twist gun.

Up until then, Uncle Sam was pretty happy with that combination - and when they "solved" the problem by increasing the barrel twist to 1:12, our troops in southeast asia noticed the new guns didn't knock down the enemy soldiers as well - apparently the orginal 1:14's had the bullets just marginally stable and would subsequently tumble as they passed through the body of a VC terrorist. The same bullet out of a 1:12 just pencilled through.

Anyway, contrary to some dissenting opinions, this twist thing is not a bunch of smoke and mirrors - it is fairly scientific . . . and all I really know is that if you have too much, you are probably still OK . . . and if you don't have enough, you are completely out of luck.

RE: 70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

Gundigest

I have a 12 twist thats in 22-250. It shoots 60 Partitions just under an inch at 100 yards. And shoots 60 solid base Noslers even a bit better.

Good luck, Jeff

RE: 70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

Thanks for your inquiry, First off i don,t have a digital camera,or scanner,ssecond. the 69 gr bullets even say only for 7 1/2 or 9" twist barrels on the bx.third you are very lucky to live were yu have a personal range like that,a lot of people envy you,for being that far away. fourth. they did not sell as far as i know either.fifth,i meant the price for those x bullet one can,t affort to use them for pratice rounds. As one must always know that EACH barrel is different,just like a woman. And i do have a true 1-12twist in mine. I do know how to measure one. Being a gunsmith,for over 40yrs,whom worked for the best in the country companies,and have taught nation wide renowed gunsmith schools,i think i might know a little bit more than some peoplewhom live afar,and less than some.I usually shoot a lot of game each year and more ammo than most buy in there life time. Hope some day,or by the way the 70gr group as of the best was .261 at 100yds.Hope some day to come see you in texas,but never been there till the LAST time i passed throught it. enjoy your shooting and keep it flying. vangunsmith

RE: 70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

my guess is this bullet is probably intended for a 22-250 or a 220 swift. if it was to be used in .223 id imagine it would need atleast a 1 in 7 twist even with a 1 in 7 twist i doubt a .223 could push it fast enough lack of powder capacity to get the needed velocity

RE: 70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

Van
Okee dokee. Don't know Ralph at Barnes but do know Randy and Connie. I did a bit of early testing of the original 52/53 grain Barnes X bullets for them at the time.

The 69s boxes I've had have said 10 twist or faster. Of course I've probably only loaded abouty 150,000 or so of them so far. Of course the first 69s had no stipulation as to twist rates

Where was that twist formula now again? Or exactly how do you as a smith go about suggesting twists? I well know that weird things happen. But having run a lot of 80 grainers out of 9 twist barrels I know that the longer projectiles in the 80 grain weight may not stabilize while the shorter 80 grainers will. It has to do with the length at least some. Of course I don't shoot anything off my 100 yard bench any more. I start testing at 300 and it may well be easier to see those slightly oblong holes out at 300 than up close. I assume we are not suggesting that a 12 is the way to go, only that it could work, but probably only a fluke if it did and at high speed if so? Thats the way we suggest 9 twists to use 80s. Nope they don't all work, if they do it takes a person driving a 223 round awful hot to keep them working and they best not err to 9.1 or 9.2 etc.... We don't suggest starting at 9 twist if shooting 80s but if its what you have you can try. This may be what you are suggesting I suspect.

High Desert

Only some info for those interested. Having not shot the 70 Xs yet, Over the last 15 years I've probably loaded some 8-to almost 20K rounds of 223 a year. The 7 twist, even in a 20 inch tube, will stabilize everything up to 80s. Under correct circumstances it will stabilize 90 JLKs. But its not reliable there and have to go to a 6.5 twist(amazingly enough my gunsmith took the 90s and calculated the required twist rate and so did Jimmy Knox and both ended up saying faster than 7 but not 6. It was some weird fractional number and hence the fact that we contracted Pac Nor into making the 6.5 twist 224 tubes for us to use for 90s)

I know this is not relevant to an X but it would still be nice if someone posted OAL of the 70 so it can be compared to known projectiles including its design shape (secant Ogive??) to give an educated guess.

Jeff

RE: 70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

I called Sierra Ballistics (800-223-8799) this morning and talked to Duane - he said that, although there are occasionally some slight variations in what a true 12 twist will stabilize - there is no possible way any 1:12 twist will work with either their new 65 gr. SBT or the 69 HPBT. And as long as Barnes X bullets are for their weight, the new 70 gr. X would almost certainly be unstable as well.

RE: 70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

i am also new to reloading my self and wanted to try out some new types of bullets. is there a site that i can go to and find out what bullets will shoot the best for a rem700vls 22-250 1:14 26in bull barrel. from what i have read i should stick to anything less that 60????

RE: 70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

with handloaded 22-250's loaded from near maximum to maximum charges, because of the serious velcoity increase over a .223, your 1 in 14 twist wist stablize a 60 grain bullet just fine, you could go as high as 65 and not likely see any problems either. with factory ammo I would stay with 55 to 60 grainers or lighter.

Ya got me

RE: 70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

OK - there are a couple of possible explanations here:

1. Somewhere out there in gunny land, there is a customer of your gunsmith who got his gun back around the same time you did. He ordered a 1:8 twist barrel. Can't figure out why it won't shoot anything heavier than 65 grains - but it shoots 55 gr. bullets great. He has your barrel. You have his. I wouldn't complain.

2. As your 77 gr. Sierra's are tumbling through the air, they do it so consistently that they all hit point-first on the target you included. And group well to boot!! Move your target ten yards closer or farther and you will see the sideways bullet holes.

RE: 70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

talk about day-sha-voo. i know that i have seen that target before. well i did some looking and found out that its the same as the target that got shot with a ruger 10/22 at 50yds. http://forum.hunting.net/asppg/tm.asp?m=1026973 need i say more.

RE: 70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

Thanks, ceberly. I had hoped that the poster was being sincere in his totally incredulous claim. You know, there are a lot of different kinds of people on these bulletin boards. There is one from Wisconsin named Cayugad (who regularly posts on muzzleloading websites) that is an example of what everyone who participates in these board discussions should aspire to be: helpful, non-critical, hospitable to newbies, knowledgeable but not a know-it-all, and not really here for any personal ego pumping reasons.

Unfortunately, there are others who want to stir the pot in ways that are socially unacceptable in any setting outside the anonimity of the internet . . . . .

Please stick around. There is some BS flying around - but there is a lot of good stuff too. Regards. Roscoe

RE: 70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

Ceberly - in response to your earlier question - you never really know what a certain gun is going to like/not like - but these new Sierra Blitzkings (55 gr.) ahead of a medium charge of H-380 has shot well for me in a bunch of different Remingtons. H-414/WW760 can also be good - and is usually a little faster. And generally one of the colder primers (like the Remington 9 1/2) is going to give you the most consistent velocity. Good luck.

RE: 70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

it does shoot 65 grain SBT gamekings well out to 200 yards, heres a pic of a 5 shot group at 200 on this particular picture, when i zeroed the gun for 100 yards it was hitting a tad low but grouping really awesome, I was running out of daylight but had to see how it would group at 200, after I got home I made adjustments to my scope according to the POI of this target, and havent bothered to see where it hits on paper yet. but before my first coyote hunt for the season i shot at some rocks according to my range finder were 196 yards so I stepped back a bit and shot, the gun was right on.

RE: 70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

Okay what got deleted here?? I'm missing something right?? Never saw a reference to 77 sierras etc.....

RE: 70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

What apparently got edited here was about 75% of the text and a pledgerized target off of Wolfie's post from April 15th at about 3 AM. A graduate of the Bill Clinton School of Personal Ethics . . . . if you get caught knowingly fabricating false information, just edit/delete the false information later and, its like it never happened . . . . .

RE: 70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

thats right BLAHAHAH!!!

RE: 70gr Tripple shock X bullet for .223???
 

Thanks for the info, I think I will try the 53gr X bullets or the 60gr Partitions instead of the 70gr X bullets.