? for Reducing charges for lower recoil in 45 acp
 

My current load is a 200 grain speer TMJ Match ( full metal jacket semi wad cutter) 6.5 grains unique. The tested COL is 1.275 but to function in my gun I had to use a COL of 1.270, the load data shows 6.5 grains as the minimum charge and 7.3 as maximum. Reason why I used the minimum charge is I'm wanting less recoil ( for just paper punching). My question is, though the speer #13 manual shows 6.5 grains of unique as the minimum charge, Would it be ok to reduce even more say in the range of 5.5 to 6.0 grains? the data shows that 6.5 grains has a velocity of 860 fps I think to get the desired reduced level of recoil I need to be pushing closer to 750 to 800 fps. If unique is not the powder to use for what I want I also have Vectan BA-10 and Hodgdon Clays to work with.

Any help would be most appreciated thanks in advance HDW

RE: ? for Reducing charges for lower recoil in 45 acp
 

I would not for 2 reasons
1 If yshoot a load too slow there is a chance that a bullet could lodge in the barrel and not exit .
2 If there is not enough recoil ,your gun may not cycle .
If you want lower recoil try , using a lighter bullet. A 185 gr bullet can be loaded for lighter felt recoil.
I have seen loads using a cast bullet weighing 155gr , it is used by target shooters .
They use lighter recoil spring on their 1911 so that it will cycle ( never tryed)

RE: ? for Reducing charges for lower recoil in 45 acp
 

Unique is a slow burning powder and it is always unwise to reduce loads below minimum recommendations with slow burning powders. Change to WW231(5.6-gr). That should provide
you with less recoil but enough power for the pistol to function.

RE: ? for Reducing charges for lower recoil in 45 acp
 

unique isnt a slow burning powder like bluedot or 2400, yes it deffinately slower then green dot and alot slower then bullseye, but its still considered a fast burning powder though its actually a moderate burning powder, and its used alot in reduced cowboy action loads but are shot in SA revolvers so being a little under pressured isnt a big deal but in a auto pistol being slightly under pressure could mean it may not cycle the action, i was mainly wondering if anyone had experience with seeing how far you could reduce unique charges that still function in an auto.

RE: ? for Reducing charges for lower recoil in 45 acp
 

You don't have to worry about the issue of decreasing loads with pistol powders. There have been some instances in the past with rifle powders having secondary detonations due to small charges, but all of these have been with a small handful of very slow burning rifle powders, and noone has been able to duplicate the conditions under which this has happened. I shoot reduced rifle powder loads and use small charges of pistol powder all of the time for shooting lead bullets, as well as thousands of other people out there.

RE: ? for Reducing charges for lower recoil in 45 acp
 

HDW - I am looking at my Speed #12 and also my reloading data. Does Speer still make a 185 TMJ? If so, they are listing 5.0-5.8 for Unique powder. Thats a low velocity of about 670. I don't know what gun you have, but a 185 grain bullet at 670 fps sure isn't going to produce much recoil at all, and I would imagine it should function quite well, if they have that load listed. Have you considered going to a 200 grain lead bullet, and a light load of Unique. They are showing a 200 SWC lead bullet with 4.9 grs of unique at 716 fps as a minimum. Might be worth a try. I agree with Briman, I am shooting a 165 grain RNFP lead bullet out of my .30-06 with 12 grains of Unique. That is a very low load and is producing 1450 fps, I can't imagine that reducing unique in the 45 should make a difference. I would also look into 231, which is what I use.

Another thing that comes to mind, is that no scale is absolutely perfect. Nor are all primers perfect. How much deviation are you getting right now. I would be willing to bet that at times, you are actually going slightly below the minimum on some rounds here and there if you are throwing your loads with a powder measure. Just a thought.

RE: ? for Reducing charges for lower recoil in 45 acp
 

I don't bother weighing charges for my Gold Cup. I just use the 0.5cc cup that came with the old Lee Loader kit and some Red Dot powder. The pistol functions fine with various bullet weights and accuracy is much more dependent on me than the variations in charge weight.

I would be much more worried about accidentally putting a double charge in a pistol case than a reduced charge. Many years ago, in my youth, I was firing some .38 wadcutter reloads and heard a dull "pop" instead of a satisfying boom. I had obviously loaded a bullet into an empty case, a recipe for potential disaster. [:@] My buddy screamed for me to cease fire, fearing a bullet had lodged in the barrel and I was going to fire another round and have the gun blow up. I did cease fire, but I had also seen the bullet exit the barrel and tumble into the dirt about twenty feet away. After verifying that the weapon was clear, I picked up that bullet and keep it as a reminder to pay attention to my work. Carelessness can get you hurt. Thank God the primer had enough powder to push the bullet out of the barrel. Thak God also that I didn't put a double charge in the case next to it, as a double charge of fast burning powder can cause the gun to blow up and injury to boot.

RE: ? for Reducing charges for lower recoil in 45 acp
 

HighDesertWolf ,
No, Unique is not a slow burning powder compared to Blue Dot or 2400!
But 2400 is not a recommended powder for the cartridge you mentioned!
And while Blue Dot is, that does NOT alter my original post. But if you disagree, march on forward and good luck!
I have 30-yrs experience with this cartridge, 10 of which in national competition. I realize that my experience is irrelevant, so you just go your way! I only hope you don't hurt yourself or your firearm in the process.

RE: ? for Reducing charges for lower recoil in 45 acp
 

I've seen a few 1911s turned into a paper bag full of broken parts by OVERCHARGES of fast powders like bullseye, but never from a light load, have you?
The only circumstance where it would be dangerous is if its loaded too light and the bullet doesn't exit the gun, then another is fired- I've seen this happen too, but not from an under charge, but from a cartridge that the reloader had failed to put any powder in. Them progressive reloaders are great tools, but they are only as good as the person operating them.

RE: ? for Reducing charges for lower recoil in 45 acp
 

Yep I considered all those options, I have the speer #13 manual and a few others the hodgdon 2004 annual manual and a hand out manual from alliant Id say im pretty well covered for different ways to go LOL. i am gonna try them out especially the cast lead bullet idea im betting that would be a good route to go since lead bullets are much cheaper then jacketed, I did think about the reduced rifle loads with unique, and figured I should have no problem at all reducing my 45 loads.... so I did, reduced the 6.5 start load to 5.6 the gun functions fine and nooooooo it didnt blow up travelr....... Yeah I have quite a bit of deviations asfar as my powder throw goes with unique im getting about a .4 grain variation. Today im actually gonna throw some together with hodgdon clays its more consistant in my thrower with only a .2 grain variation the load im looking at shows 716 fps with the start load and a 200 grain jacketed bullet im actually gonna go middle of the road on this one and use a charge slightly over start, recoil should be quite minimal. thanks guys for you input