45-70 or 450 marlin
 

ok fellas got a question, looking to buy a new lever action. I cant decide between 45-70 and 450 marlin, I know nothing about either caliber except that I have read that " the 450 marlin has more horsepower because it is a newer round as opposed to the old design of the 45-70".
I will reload for whichever one i get, but what is the real difference here??

p.s. I really hate to start a thread that turns into a "YOU SHOULD GET THIS GUN BECAUSE ....UM.....I..GOT ONE AND I KILLED A DEER WITH IT!!!! im just looking for an answer from someone knowlegable about both calibers. thanks guys!!!!!!!

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

I vote for the 45/70 because
1 there is so mutch loading data out there from a light cast going slow for plinking to marlin 45/70 loads that can take anything in north america
2 if you need to buy ammo in a pinch it is a lot easer to find
3 I am bias I have 3 and am working on a 4 but both cartregs can be loaded close to each other
4 I saw the remains of a early marlin 450 that had been shot less than 60 times with factory ammo , shooter just got scratched up thank god
5 and yes I have used the 45/70 with great results

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

the 450 marlin is awesome by far out performs the 45-70 ten to one. But the 450 marlin is one of those cartridges that just doesnt really have its place in the shooting community kinda like the 454 casull there still around just not as popular anymore as when they first come out. The 45-70 has been around for over 100 years has made its name and is here to stay.
I would have to go with a 45-70 not to mention more of an abundence of case availability and bullet varieties , and many more varieties of factory ammo.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

cool, guys!! thanks for the reply, thats 2 votes for the 45-70, i know that the rest of the crew that hangs out in this forum are going to get in on this and help me to make this tough decision, and heck if i get too many mixed results i can just...........buy both right!!!!! lol

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

I vote for the 450 Marlin. Good luck.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

If you are going to reload, it doesn't matter much, you should have the same versatility with either. However, the cost of brass should be much lower with the .45-70.

Good luck.
CE

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

The 450 Marlin was designed to replace the 45/70. The thought process was that the caliber was a great one but there were allot of older 45/70's out there that were not capable of handling modern, more hot, loads. So, Marlin put a belt around the bottom, to keep it from being loaded in a 45/70, and developed a round that really wasn't needed.

So, if you are going to reload, and are using a very strongly built, modern gun like the Marlin, going with the 45/70 makes more sense. There are also some very hot rounds made commercially for 45/70 from Buffalo Bore and a couple of others (with stipulations that they only be fired out of modern guns)
You can load the 45/70 to pretty much eqivalent power as the 450 but have more brass and bullet styles available.

Go with the 45/70 and don't look back. By far the more versatile caliber. Twenty years from now you will still be able to find rounds commercially while the 450 will be almost impossible to find.
R
Ahankster

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

If you're a handloader the .45-70 would seem to be the better choice. Both are far far far more powerful than needed for deer hunting and as a matter of fact the .450 Marlin was designed to be a bear stopper for guides in the mountains guilding elk hunters etc.

There's little doubt in my mind that it (as well as a properly hand loaded .45-70) would do that job very well!!!

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

Going thru the same dilemma. Made up my mind on a 45-70 in a Marlin lever. I can get more horses with the 450, but after shooting both 43KPSI loads, they are pretty bruital loaded at full capacity with >400gr projectiles. A full house 45-70 is enough for anyone. And I love RUM's. That should tell you something.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

A lever action? Come on mossy pine I know you better than that! That's one way not to worry about finding a "wrong hand" rifle. Just had to find something bigger than a .338 didn't ya? LOL..........I believe the 45/70 is the right choice but i knew you would never ask me. :D

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

from the way it sounds the 45-70 is my better choice, i appeciate all of your replies (except allcamo, gosh hes a pain in the a$$) I do have the dilema of being lefthanded and having trouble finding calibers besides the normal 06,270 7mm stuff that all the manufacturers limit themselves to, it is nearly impossible to get a standard production gun in lefthand in a less than popular caliber, so i decided to go with a lever action and be done with it. thanks again guys!!!

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

Seems you've decided on 45/70, guess I agree there. There is notihing the 450 can do that the 45/70 can't with handloading. I think PMC has come out with a pretty decent 300 gr. load, that is quite a bit better than the other big MFRs standard offerings.

My only advice to you would be to get a rifle, and not a guide gun. I have the 1895 SS with a 22" barrel. I just like it better than the 18.5" barrel on the guide guns, mine has a better feel, more velocity, and probably less recoil with the added barrel length/weight. One more thing, no ports on the barrel. If you're thinking about guns in this class, you can't be too scared of some recoil. The 45/70 isn't all that bad. Get the gun first, and if you need to tame recoil, go with a better pad, not ports. Them's my $.02.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

I went through the same thing and read all I could about both chamberings before deciding on the 45-70. This was tough since I am a magnummaniac and like to have the latest and greatest. What I found though was that the .450 Marlin was a factory offering of what 45-70 handloaders had already been doing in modern rifles. The .450 Marlin allowed them to produce in essence a "45-70 magnum" without worrying about someone dropping the cartridge in an old Trapdoor and blowing it up. Being a handloader, I had to give the nod to the 45-70 due to availability and versatility.

Currently I am having good results with 48.5 gr. H-4198 and 350 gr. Hornady FP Interlocks. 10 shots through my Guide Gun chronographed 1934 to 1948 fps. I wish all loads were that consistent.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

The .450 because its the newest:eek: Sounded good to me, and I even went against the grain and got it with the short barrel and ports. Shows what I know. Boy its a blast to shoot. (and handy in my box blinds). I didn't need it, I WANTED it:) oh year, I haven't killed a deer with it!!!

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

This will be my 4th season hunting with the .450 Marlin. I have 8 deer and counting, best of which is 115 9 pointer. I have used factory loads the previous years, but this year I'm reloading some 300 grain Nosler Partitions with H322. I should be get about 2000 fps at the muzzle of the 18.5" barrel. That should be plenty.

I can only say that I truly love this gun for whitetails, given the way I hunt them in the thick places from ground blinds and low (15ft or less) ladders. Of course, it also helps to have the Reddot mounted scout style to enhance my enjoyment. That makes it quick pointing and quick shooting and allows me extra seconds to judge the animal. The last whitetail I shot was 20 yards away in thick pines and the gun performed flawlessly.

Yeah, you could do the same thing with the .45-70, but it's an old boring cartridge. I wanted something new and also something not many people have. This fits the bill for me, but you'll have to decide.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

formula1, shoot a 405gr bullet at 2000fps and tell me its boring! I think the .450 is just fine, but I wonder if brass will be available fifty years from now?

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

I know it's not boring to you nostalgic guys, so enjoy it!!! I just prefered the newer cartridge. They are ballistically identical given the same loading. I think the brass will be around forever. After all, the .45-70 brass has been around awhile, and it's the ugliest case I've ever seen!!!:D

Seriously, to each his own!!! As long as you'll stand with me on our 2nd amendment rights, I don't care what you shoot!!!

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

In the data I've seen the .45-70 can pushed slightly hotter than the .450 (make that very slightly) so I'd say the .45-70. This was looking a max loads with the same bullet. Probably everyone on this board knows this, but approach max loads with caution.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

I'll stand till I can't no more!!!!!!!

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

I feel the 450 marlin will wind up just like its little brother the 444 marlin, very popular when it first come out but over the years it becomes just another cartridge with no place in the shooting community. From what I understand the 444 marlin was supposed to give a 45-70 a good run which back in the day when it came out it would have, But no prevail now today with the 450 marlin, Marlin decided they were gonna surpass the the 45-70 rather than just exceed it. But once again I think marlin will fail. The 45-70 is unreplaceable.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

HighDesertWolf,

There are quite a few eastern deer hunters that still use the .444 Marlin, so I don't think I would agree that it is "just another cartridge with no place in the shooting community." Heck - even the local WalMart stores carry ammo for it - so I don't think it's that unusual.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

I never said it was unusual, its in a place just not in a popular place of the shooting community.
what walmart you shopping at I haven't seen 444 marlin in a walmart in about 10 years. you have to admit 444 marlin really isnt that great anymore, Nowadays if you reload there are 44 magnum loads if shot from a carbine are pushing velocities within 250 fps of the 444 marlin with the same 240 grain bullet. And handloads of 454 casull in a pistol give the 444 marlin a hell of a run and a 454 casull in a carbine blows the 444 marlin away and almost gives some 45-70 loads a run.
I am just stating there are smaller loads now days that perform almost as good and some that perform better then the 444 marlin but the 45-70 is better then all of them and the 450 marlin just isnt that much better to replace the 45-70.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

.45-70 all the way... and for the following reasons...

The 45-70 has been around since 1873 albiet in black powder back then, but it is more popular now then ever. It can be handloaded to exceed the perofrmance of the .450 in equal bullet weights ever so slightly. Also brass will be available for many many years to come.... You just cant say that about the .450 as its already seen the heights of its popularity and is slowly starting the downhill slide according to die sales stats.

Look at the .35 REM... many times more guns have been chambered for it then the .450 and I see many of them in the woods every fall but brass and ammo are both drying up. Just something to think about.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

High Desert. 250fps isn't giving anything a run for its money. 250fps is like 3 car lengths in a drag race.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

I wasn't saying 250 fps was giving it a run, I was saying it was getting closer to a 444 marlins performance

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

[8D] Well I too have been looking at the .450 Marlin vs .45-70. Two aspects not brought out thus far is the Browning BLR in .450 Marlin will allow use of pointed bullets like the Barnes X Triple Shock allowing increased range. However Wild West Firearms in Alaska can open up the .45-70 to accept either standard .45-70 or the .457 Magnum ( about 1/10th longer) or even go up to the .50 Alaskan.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

It is my understanding that barnes does not make that bullet in .458 caliber and that the largest caliber offered in that style is .338. Unless you use a barnes FNX it comes in .458 but it is a flat nose. Also I cant think of any bullet manufacturers that make a pointed bullet in .458 cal everything is flat nose, round nose, and hollow point.

RE: 45-70 or 450 marlin
 

[8D] Check out www.barnesbullets.com/prodtsx.php the triple shocks are now made up through .458 caliber. They offer a 450 gr. and 500 gr. which is rather a hefty load for anything but dangerious game. The Barnes X regular bullets are made from 300 gr. up to 500 gr.. I mean either the .45-70 or .450 Marlin is a limited range round but the increase in B.C. could help lengthen that a little. The B.C. for the Barnes X 300 gr. is .340 as compared to a flat nose bullet like the Hornady 300 gr. with a .197 B.C.. Quite a difference but the tube feed on the Marlin requires a flat point.