What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

I've recently started reloading 308 winchester all of my load data shows to use a federal 210m Large rifle primer. But I have tons of winchester Large rifle primers. And would hate to have to buy more or different primers then what my other loadings use. I have limited space for primer storage. Anyway I would appreciate any input on wether there is a big enough of a difference between federal 210M LR primers and winchester LR primers that will make have to buy the federal 210 M primers.

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

I have never noticed a proformance difference in primers until you get into the really big boys, where the Federal magnum primer is king. With a .308, any large rifle primer will do fine, just work up your load with the primer you intend to use. They are all very similar, but not interchangable! Don't work up a load, then switch primers!

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

Charley, they have debunked that idea of Federal being king for over a decade. Check out precision Rifle's data and even john barshness's "rifle" pressure data and many others. That Winchester is the hottest and a few writers showed how a relatively safe load at 60K PSI with say a Federal 215, could be not save with a WLRM primer.

I am not a fan of the Winchester primers. Seem too hot. I have tried 215's and CCI's 250 with 308, with bad results. 210's or something milder always work better for me.

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

IMO go with what the load calls for ,if you weed Win. primer load data look around at different books and web sights. If that fails talk to a tec. from a bullet or powder manufacter, I have talked to Hornday tec. several times .

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

What powder are you using? If you are using a ball powder, like H335, your WLRs will work great. If they are WLRMs, that would be too much, as has already been stated, they are too hot. I use WLRMs in my .378 Wby, they reliably ignite some very heavy loads of H870.
The Winchester primer was formulated by Olin, the company who originated Ball powder. Ball powder burns cooler than IMR powder (stick), but it is harder to completely ignite. It meters great though.

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

Use the Winchesters til your heart is content. They work great. Cheaper too. :D

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

1mile50,
I am using varget powder
the load data is 46 g. maximum charge 165 grain jacketed bullet (i'm gonna use a sierra
165 g. BTHP gameking) winchester case ( I'm using remington cases, I measured the case volume same as winchester) with a federal 210m primer ( I have winchester LR).
I'm pretty certain of everything else just not sure about the primers.

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

That seems to be the data from the Hogdon website. Varget is an extruded powder, not spherical. Hogdon worked up their load with Federal primers. Doesn't mean you can't use WLRs, but it does mean that your max load may be less than 46 grains. My advice would be to start at the minimum and work up slowly, .2 or .3 grains at a time.

Good luck!
Please let me know your results.

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

I loaded up 50 rounds this eveing, A friend of mine talked me into using federal primers so i went on a search around town for fed 210m primers never found any but did find federal 210 primers my friend that runs the shop I bought them at recommended using the federal 210's over the winchesters, and to start with a minimum start load of 42 grains. My powder measure and scale didnt feel like workin with me tonite LOL when i first adjusted the powder measure i hit 42.3 grains on the nose trying to turn it back some it went down to 41.2 grains so then turning back up I hit 44 grains It was so tedius driving me crazy so after 2 hours of this I finally gave up and settled with it when I was getting a consistant 42.2 grains so I went with it and loaded up 50 rounds and gonna hit the range tomorrow, the range has a supplied chronograph I'm gonna use if my velocity is in the ball park of 2700 fps I'm gonna run with it and not change a thing but if i'm under 2700 fps then I will work it up a bit untill I hit my mark of 2700 fps though the load data shows 2773 fps for the maximum load I figure it would be better to stick with 2700 fps mark. Now the load data says that velocity is with a 24 inch barrel I'm assuming with a 1 in 12 twist rate. My barrel is 22 inches with a 1 in 10 twist how much of difference do you think that will make asfar as velocity goes. If its a considerable amount, then maybe if I'm getting atleast a velocity of 2650 to 2700 fps It would be wiser to just leave it where it is. I'm almost thinking untill I get a digital scale to just use the start load regardless of velocity.

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

something else I wanted to add was the load data notes it as a compressed load, From my experience with loading 357 magnum I've loaded compressed loads with Win 296 and Vectan SP3 and the load data recommends using the exact powder weight listed and not backing it off thus leaving you with no start load then working it up. with your knowledge and expertise would the 42.2 grains be adequate enough for a start load for my 308 loading?

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

if its not I guess I will find out tomorrow at the range I'm sure it is its within the 10% mark they recommend backing off for a start load. well its more like backed off 9% but I think it should be enough. 1mile50 I want ya to have my email address [email protected]

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

I just looked at my scale still has a powder charge sitting in the tray. And ........... it was a 42.3 charge not 42.2 well I hope that will still be a ok start load.

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

I never had luck with varget until you hit about 44gr. I load in 1 grain increments. I found the 46 worked like a champ and very slightly compressed. The 47 was compressed fully. Didn't work for me. So don't be surprised if 42, and 43grs is pretty inaccruate.

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

I talked to The guys at Sierra today they said the 165 grain BTHP gameking performs the best at velocities between 2,500 - 2,700 fps and with the 42.3 grains I should be getting somewhere over 2,600 fps but the accuracy will depend on the bullet seating depth in the case. they said to start at a 2.750 COL and work up but some have better luck starting at 2.790 COL and working down. I decided to start at 2.790 COL and work it down since with factory ammo my rifle did real well with ammo loaded at 2.780 COL to 2.790 COL.
what were you loading with 47 grains of varget?? a 308 with a 165 grain pill??
according to all my load data that would be a hot load unless you were loading a lighter bullet like a 150 grain.

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

Unfortunately, with Varget I have neither expertise, nor experience. But, if I had known earlier that your data called for a compressed load, I would have suggested a higher start load. With respect to the powder, you really are better off getting advice from someone who uses it.
When you loaded up your 50 rounds, how many of each load increase increment did you load? Have you considered trying the Audette method?

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

The what method?? I figured I'd just load a bunch I figured were a safe load and pop them off see what they did and burn a little time and get my moneys worth of the range fees. As much trouble as I was having with my balance scale and powder measure trying to hit the 42 grain mark I figured I'd play with the 50 I loaded up and worry about working it up next week when I get a digital scale. I'm actually not sure but assumed it was a compressed load because in the hodgdon load manual the sierra 168 grain match king with 46 grains of varget says its a compressed load but with my other data it does not specify its compressed load with a 165 grain jacketed bullet and 46 grains of varget but does specify a 42 grain charge is a safe starter load.

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

Well, I hope you have a good load, or else you've wasted about 45 rounds. I had earlier suggested the small incremental increases because your initial primer choice was the WLR, best to be on the safe side. If you ran an Audette from your start to your max, you would be shooting the 15 rounds that I suggest below, at .3 grains per increment.
As copied from a post of mine in another thread:
Load work ups can be very frustrating. You can shoot many rounds without seeing the results you want. A man named Audette came up with a good method. Load your choice of powder/bullets for a particular test. Load 15 rounds total. Load the 1rst 3 rounds at the minimum listed load for your bullet/powder combination. Load the remaining 12 in equal increments to the maximum listed load.
Go past the grocery store and pick up some large white posterboard. Put a large target dot in the center. If you can, set the target at least 200 yards out. Shoot the 1rst 3 minimum loads to see were you are hitting. You want to be starting out 2" or 3" below the bullseye while aiming at the bullseye because your hits will tend to rise as you advance thru the loads. This is the time to make any corrections. Mark your 1rst hits, and number each successive hit, as often as necessary to keep track of them. If you have access to a chrono, use that too.
Keep your point of aim on the bullseye and shoot your loads, while keeping track of your hits and keeping your eye open for any signs of excessive pressure. Record your data for each test. Keep your target for each test. You will need to evaluate it later.
You are accomplishing several things here. Your shots should start to string up, as your loads increase. You will notice that some of the shots will group together, then start stringing again. The grouping indicates a sweet spot in your load, a spot for you to work on. There may be more than 1 sweet spot. You are only shooting 15 rounds, but you can tell if the bullet/powder combo has potential or not. You are also safely working up to the listed max load when you use the Audette method.
There is really a lot you can do to fine tune your loads. I would suggest you avoid CCI primers in your 7 mag. Also, I would start my O.A.L. .010" from the lands, tune your O.A.L. after you find your load.
Check out Varmint Als reloading page
There is a whole bunch of info for you there.
You say your range has a chrono for use. That's great, I'm impressed. Your "sweet spots" should show as flat spots on the velocity data. As you leave a sweet spot, your velocity will jump. If you pass your max, the jump will be considerable, and velocity will jump above what is listed. Sometimes velocity will flatten out, and even reduce slightly in the maximum zone, then jump sharply, very sharply, a warning that must be heeded. You are not extrapolating, so that should not be a factor. Just good to know.
Notice the reference to 7 mag. Like I said, it is from another post.
Man, what's with that scale? Midway sells a battery powered trickler, cheap but it works. Also, what is your distance from the lands?

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

For some reason, the guys at Sierra are very conservative on the 308win 165/168gr data. I can't figure it out. Everybody else in the business tells you 46 or 47gr is max. I wasted alot of time trying to get their numbers to work, by changing COL but accuracy wasn't there for 3 different rifles. Maybe they tell us that because the bullet doesn't perfrom well at 2800fps, which is were my 165game kings land. But I have taken 10 or so deer with it without any problems. I doubt you will reach 2600fps with 42gr of powder. Let us know how it does. I checked all the manuels, even barnes and don't see the loads being so mind. I talked to one guy at Sierra that said he doesn't shoot that low power of a load either and can't figure why they are so conservative, and shoots 46gr but then Duane (another tech) who said he did some of the testing for the manuel said stick to the 42.2gr.

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

LOL Yea me too, After the first 5 or 6 rounds if the accuracy is so poor I'll quit take them back home and pull the bullets. I used a collet die and a seater no crimp I figured out an easy way to pull the bullets without damaging them. But thats my last resort If they have atleast the accuracy of factory ammo I'll save them and use them for deer hunting or varmints.

I would suppose they are but the tech I talked to I believe his name was paul he said that 42.3 grains is a fine start load. Then I looked on their web site for ballistic coeffients heres the link http://www.sierrabullets.com/bullets/bc.cfm Basically its says the bullets perform the best at 2600 fps or above or 1800 fps and below. I jusy have this funny gut feeling that my 42.3 grains won't produce above 2600 fps and Im gonna have some of the worst flying bullets. almost feel like maybe I should forget shooting them and just go pull them now.

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

I loaded 15 rounds in just like the audette method explains I did .3 grain increments gonna hit the range thursday and see what I come up with. I have my COL OAL which ever is the correct way to say it set at 2.790 I figure since bullets seem to do better closer to the lands i figure I'll work it up to the 2.800 mark hopefully knocking out 10 or 15 loads if nothing happens with that then I'll go back to 2.790 and work it down.

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

I loaded up .308Win just to kill clay pigeons on the berm at 200yds. Using Winchester standard large rifle primers, I got the best accuracy results from 39.5gr of IMR4064, pushing a 168gr AMax. Four shot groups were consistantly touching eachother at 200yds. Working up the propellant load the groups were good until I went beyone 40.9gr of IMR4064, at which point the groups began to open up. I have found no problems using Winchester primers. The rifle is a Savage Model 10LE with McMillan stock and 26" bbl. I fired three shot groups at spaced intervals, allowing the bbl to cool for 20mins between groups.

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

try cci large rifle primers...

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

I dont really care for cci much, the gun stores around here really dont carry much anything but winchester and federal. I decided to use federal 210 primers, Im thinkin i will stick with them.

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

You know a good solid reliable dyanamic load, primers will not make too much difference. I can take my 308 load and put CCI's or Fed 210's and get pretty much same results. I can also move my COL from 2.77" to 2.83" and not see too much a difference in groups. I could shoot it in 20 degrees or 80 degrees. All would be under 1.5" at 100 yards. Thats what I love about a 308win. Not too many calibers I have seen can accomplish this.

Winchester primers are the one exception.

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

Yep winchester primers hehe I figured out the other day a winchester small pistol primer works just as good in my 357 mag loads as a federal small pistol magnum primer.

RE: What primers to use in .308 loadings?
 

If you ever happen to see a article in Precision shooter 1998, I believe about primers, take a read. It actally says Winchester mags primers are hottest by far, but WLR primers are not as powerful in pressure than a 210 federal. I was surprised. Been years since I looked at it.