runout driving me nuts
 

I have struggled lately with bullet runout. I have followed all the suggestions. I rotate the shell about 5 times while seating a bullet. I deprime separately and raise my expander ball to the top when FL sizing. This produces 1mil or less brass neck runout. Which I can deal with. I square up my sizing and seating dies by putting pressure on them with my piston before locking my locknut. I then buy this 70 dollar Redding seating die. I think I have better luck with my RCBS seating die. Even though this redding will set you COL dead nuts on. Pretty cool.

But while loading 20 190gr matchkings last night, 7 out of 20 has runout around 4 mil. The other 13 is 2mil or less. I not even sure it even matters much. I just want nice little 5 shot groups at 200 yards. I get this nice 3 bullet cluster about .5" then 2" low at 200 yards. I get this ugly flyer. I know I am really picking pepper out of ant $hit, but I want to compete one day.

Loaded 20 more Triple X last night. About the same story 10 out of 20 bad runout. Seems its critical during the initial seating. Not sure what else to try. Maybe my shell holder? It does seem to float a little on the piston. Maybe try RCBS competition die? Maybe that 1.5 mil brass neck runout causes the bullet to insert wrong sometimes making 5 to 7 mil runout on bullet near the ogive. I mean its hard to correct for 1.5 mil brass runout.

RE: runout driving me nuts
 

BC I always heard that anything less than 4mil runout was perfectly acceptable... I think you have too much time on your hands:)

RE: runout driving me nuts
 

Oldelk, I am divorced, work is slow, its winter so I can't ride my scoot, newly diabetic so I can't drink myself thru the winter anymore, watched 4 seasons of Sopranos on DVD already, what do you want me to do? I can't help myself. I am obsessed. I can't stop my shooting/reloading cycle. I need help. I can't believe the amount of time I have on my hands now that the ole bag is gone.:D:D:D:D

RE: runout driving me nuts
 

Not to sound stupid but can you explain what runout is? thanks

RE: runout driving me nuts
 

Basically, runout refers to how straight (concentric) your ammo is. It's the amount the cartridge is off center to it's centerline axis. For instance, if you took a cartridge and rolled it across a flat surface and you observed that the tip of the bullet actually wobbles around in a circular manner, that's runout. There are gauges that measure this. Straight ammo is generally (but not always) more accurate. In the real world of big game hunting, however, a slightly crooked cartridge is of no real concern. But we reloaders tend to be an anal bunch, so we try to eliminate every variable that might effect accuracy. I know I do.

RE: runout driving me nuts
 

Hey, if I never got flyers, It would be a moot point. But the 5 shot .7" group is hard to get. but by gosh I want it. I would really like to graduate up to competing in 1000 yard comps. I watch them. But really would like to. I mean you rarely see these guys getting flyers. I got hunting guns. And as long as they get 1.3" groups at 100 yards and most do better, I am happy. I just can't figure out how to graduate up to the next level.

RE: runout driving me nuts
 

BC ...I have never tried this but have you used a neck uniformer yet?. The only other cases of bad runout Ihave seen have been a result of a bad sizing die

RE: runout driving me nuts
 

Yea, I am looking into that. I think some guys on Accurate reloading got me covered. They mentioned my chamfering on the neck or mouth. This weekend, my cases didn't need trimmed, so I half A$$'d my deburring. That is where my runout started getting bad. I know my sizer is ok, cause if I take a loaded round, and measure neck runout before the bullet, it is less than .0015". Then if I measure right after the neck its .005" or more. So that tells me the outside of the neck is good but either I need to turn my necks or I have to deburr every time. Boy isn't this stuff fun. I guess another 100 dollars to sinclair intl. I think I am putting somebodies kid over at sinclair thru college.

RE: runout driving me nuts
 

bigcountry,

I don't know if you want to hear this, because its an awful lot of work, but turning the outside of the case necks may be the solution to your problem. Eric, a friend of mine, was about to have a new barrel put on his rifle because of fliers. I turned some of his case necks and it eliminated the fliers. If you do turn the outside of the necks, it may become necessary to use a sizing die that uses a bushing that does the sizing. I know that you really wanted to hear this, they also run about $70.00. Good luck and God Bless.[&:]

RE: runout driving me nuts
 

Why would I have to use a bushing sizing die? Cause my RCBS would make the neck off again to one side? Or are you saying I need to turn the necks, then size with a bushing die. The bushing die doesn't use an expander ball does it? I guess I have break out the credit card again.[X(][X(][X(]

RE: runout driving me nuts
 

bigcountry,

Depending on the cases, sometimes when the outside of necks are turned, a standard type sizing die will not reduce the neck diameter enough to securely hold the bullet. If it happens, a bushing style sizing die is needed to properly resize the neck. The Reddings dies do have a decapping rod, but it does not have a expansion button on it. ;)

You may also need an expansion die in order to expand the neck enough to accept the mandrel of the neck turner. Sinclair is the best source for a lot of this type of equipment. The folks there are very good and willing to help.:)

I hope that this is of some help. Good luck and God Bless.[&:]

RE: runout driving me nuts
 

Very interesting. I've only reloaded for hunting and when I shoot local range competition I use my hunting loads. These loads after testing and trying I have got them staying under .75 group size. I thank you for the information but now I'm sure I'll have to research this and it adds but another thing to have to constantly worry about. In someways I wish I would of never asked.:D

Still very interesting if I ever start getting flyers then I'll know one more thing to look at. Thank you.

RE: runout driving me nuts
 

boy, I remember telling my ex wife when I started loading "honey, all I want to do is to match factory ammo and save money, its only a 200 dollar investment". Then it more and more, then custom rifles, then .7" wasn't good enough, I had to do less than 2" at 300 yards. Now here I am talking about dropping more on bushing dies and neck turning. But I don't have to explain myself anymore to a women.

RE: runout driving me nuts
 

I tried the bushing dies too, but I still wasn't happy with the results. Then I bought a Lee collet neck die (which cost quite a bit less BTW) and my ammo is now straighter than it's ever been. The thing I like most about these dies, however, is that they make reloading simpler because you don't have to lube you cases and that makes reloading more enjoyable for me. Because of the unique way this die sizes the neck, neck turning is not necessary to achieve concentricity (when measured on the bullet). But I neck turn anyway because I want uniform tension on the bullet all the way around. This is a neck die, of course, so if it's full length sizing you want to do, then this is not the die for you.

RE: runout driving me nuts
 

I like the collet too. Too bad they don't make them for 300RUM yet.