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bigcountry 02-02-2004 06:42 AM

runout driving me nuts
I have struggled lately with bullet runout. I have followed all the suggestions. I rotate the shell about 5 times while seating a bullet. I deprime separately and raise my expander ball to the top when FL sizing. This produces 1mil or less brass neck runout. Which I can deal with. I square up my sizing and seating dies by putting pressure on them with my piston before locking my locknut. I then buy this 70 dollar Redding seating die. I think I have better luck with my RCBS seating die. Even though this redding will set you COL dead nuts on. Pretty cool.

But while loading 20 190gr matchkings last night, 7 out of 20 has runout around 4 mil. The other 13 is 2mil or less. I not even sure it even matters much. I just want nice little 5 shot groups at 200 yards. I get this nice 3 bullet cluster about .5" then 2" low at 200 yards. I get this ugly flyer. I know I am really picking pepper out of ant $hit, but I want to compete one day.

Loaded 20 more Triple X last night. About the same story 10 out of 20 bad runout. Seems its critical during the initial seating. Not sure what else to try. Maybe my shell holder? It does seem to float a little on the piston. Maybe try RCBS competition die? Maybe that 1.5 mil brass neck runout causes the bullet to insert wrong sometimes making 5 to 7 mil runout on bullet near the ogive. I mean its hard to correct for 1.5 mil brass runout.

oldelkhunter 02-02-2004 12:10 PM

RE: runout driving me nuts
BC I always heard that anything less than 4mil runout was perfectly acceptable... I think you have too much time on your hands:)

bigcountry 02-02-2004 03:48 PM

RE: runout driving me nuts
Oldelk, I am divorced, work is slow, its winter so I can't ride my scoot, newly diabetic so I can't drink myself thru the winter anymore, watched 4 seasons of Sopranos on DVD already, what do you want me to do? I can't help myself. I am obsessed. I can't stop my shooting/reloading cycle. I need help. I can't believe the amount of time I have on my hands now that the ole bag is gone.:D:D:D:D

cherokee_outfitters 02-02-2004 05:05 PM

RE: runout driving me nuts
Not to sound stupid but can you explain what runout is? thanks

Solitary Man 02-02-2004 07:50 PM

RE: runout driving me nuts
Basically, runout refers to how straight (concentric) your ammo is. It's the amount the cartridge is off center to it's centerline axis. For instance, if you took a cartridge and rolled it across a flat surface and you observed that the tip of the bullet actually wobbles around in a circular manner, that's runout. There are gauges that measure this. Straight ammo is generally (but not always) more accurate. In the real world of big game hunting, however, a slightly crooked cartridge is of no real concern. But we reloaders tend to be an anal bunch, so we try to eliminate every variable that might effect accuracy. I know I do.

bigcountry 02-03-2004 05:04 AM

RE: runout driving me nuts
Hey, if I never got flyers, It would be a moot point. But the 5 shot .7" group is hard to get. but by gosh I want it. I would really like to graduate up to competing in 1000 yard comps. I watch them. But really would like to. I mean you rarely see these guys getting flyers. I got hunting guns. And as long as they get 1.3" groups at 100 yards and most do better, I am happy. I just can't figure out how to graduate up to the next level.

oldelkhunter 02-03-2004 07:09 AM

RE: runout driving me nuts
BC ...I have never tried this but have you used a neck uniformer yet?. The only other cases of bad runout Ihave seen have been a result of a bad sizing die

bigcountry 02-03-2004 08:13 AM

RE: runout driving me nuts
Yea, I am looking into that. I think some guys on Accurate reloading got me covered. They mentioned my chamfering on the neck or mouth. This weekend, my cases didn't need trimmed, so I half A$$'d my deburring. That is where my runout started getting bad. I know my sizer is ok, cause if I take a loaded round, and measure neck runout before the bullet, it is less than .0015". Then if I measure right after the neck its .005" or more. So that tells me the outside of the neck is good but either I need to turn my necks or I have to deburr every time. Boy isn't this stuff fun. I guess another 100 dollars to sinclair intl. I think I am putting somebodies kid over at sinclair thru college.

BigBob .30-06 02-03-2004 08:43 AM

RE: runout driving me nuts

I don't know if you want to hear this, because its an awful lot of work, but turning the outside of the case necks may be the solution to your problem. Eric, a friend of mine, was about to have a new barrel put on his rifle because of fliers. I turned some of his case necks and it eliminated the fliers. If you do turn the outside of the necks, it may become necessary to use a sizing die that uses a bushing that does the sizing. I know that you really wanted to hear this, they also run about $70.00. Good luck and God Bless.[&:]

bigcountry 02-03-2004 08:57 AM

RE: runout driving me nuts
Why would I have to use a bushing sizing die? Cause my RCBS would make the neck off again to one side? Or are you saying I need to turn the necks, then size with a bushing die. The bushing die doesn't use an expander ball does it? I guess I have break out the credit card again.[X(][X(][X(]

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