Another Win Model 70 thread
09-06-2019, 09:01 AM
#1
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,746
Another Win Model 70 thread
My saga continues with my custom Win Model 70 LH in 270 WSM. You may recall I was getting less than ideal results with Nosler 140 BTs. I only had one load that shot about 1". I decided to go with the Nosler 130 gr BTs because they shot so well in my 270 WIN.
On NoMercy's advice I loaded some rounds up using the Satterlee method. Charges ranging from 60.0 gr up to 62.7 gr of IMR4350 in 0.3 gr increments. I found that my best node was at the 60.0 - 60.6 gr. (2995, 2999 & 3008 fps avg of 3 shots - That's a very good node.) This maybe by coincidence coincides with my manuals 60.0 gr as the most accurate load using IMR4350.
Now my next phase is already to go. I loaded 5 rounds each of 60.3 gr. at OALs of 2.760 - 2.790 in .010" increments. This longest length is just off the lands.
Now my question to Nomercy is this: Should I shoot these rounds in a "round robin" deal or shoot all 5 of one charge, cool, and go to the next?
Its really funny how you can be reloading for as long as I have and still find out new ways to do things. I'm glad there are people figuring better ways to do things and I'm not too stubborn to try them!
On NoMercy's advice I loaded some rounds up using the Satterlee method. Charges ranging from 60.0 gr up to 62.7 gr of IMR4350 in 0.3 gr increments. I found that my best node was at the 60.0 - 60.6 gr. (2995, 2999 & 3008 fps avg of 3 shots - That's a very good node.) This maybe by coincidence coincides with my manuals 60.0 gr as the most accurate load using IMR4350.
Now my next phase is already to go. I loaded 5 rounds each of 60.3 gr. at OALs of 2.760 - 2.790 in .010" increments. This longest length is just off the lands.
Now my question to Nomercy is this: Should I shoot these rounds in a "round robin" deal or shoot all 5 of one charge, cool, and go to the next?
Its really funny how you can be reloading for as long as I have and still find out new ways to do things. I'm glad there are people figuring better ways to do things and I'm not too stubborn to try them!
Last edited by bronko22000; 09-06-2019 at 09:03 AM.
09-07-2019, 05:33 AM
#2
Fork Horn
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: US South
Posts: 444
bronco,
I'm not familiar with the current Win M70s.
I have 2 Pre-64s and they both have that 3rd bedding screw in the forearm
below about where the rear sight on the barrel.
Do the newer M70s have this 3rd forward bedding screw? Does yours?
I'm not familiar with the current Win M70s.
I have 2 Pre-64s and they both have that 3rd bedding screw in the forearm
below about where the rear sight on the barrel.
Do the newer M70s have this 3rd forward bedding screw? Does yours?
09-07-2019, 11:18 AM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,905
Bronc, I generally shoot all of my development work as round robin fire, just to keep myself honest and to prevent myself from shooting at my group, instead of shooting at my POA’s.
Seating depth tests, however, I could do either way - I dial away from my zero such my POA stays intact.
Seating depth tests, however, I could do either way - I dial away from my zero such my POA stays intact.
09-07-2019, 03:42 PM
#4
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,746
No Ray mine only has two screws. I was really disappointed with the results I was getting with 140 gr bullets. Out of the 9 or so loads I tried, the best I could get was one load of IMR4350 that shot right about 1". All the others were in the 1.5" range.
I'm pretty confident that the 130 gr bullets will shoot better. At least that's what I'm hoping for. Even though this is going to be strictly a hunting rifle or a safe queen it won't stay long if it doesn't group well. It will be on a used gun rack at a dealer near me!! I would expect more from something out of the Winchester custom shop.
I'm pretty confident that the 130 gr bullets will shoot better. At least that's what I'm hoping for. Even though this is going to be strictly a hunting rifle or a safe queen it won't stay long if it doesn't group well. It will be on a used gun rack at a dealer near me!! I would expect more from something out of the Winchester custom shop.
09-16-2019, 01:19 PM
#6
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,746
Well after finding a decent load for my rifle using the Satterlee load test I started playing with the OAL. I shot at 200 yards today to give me a better idea as to how the load performed at different distances off the lands. Four loads with lengths varying .010" it seemed the farther I got off the lands the more accurate the rifle was. The group size went from 3" (1.5 MOA) at the .010" off the lands to 2" (1 MOA) at .040" off the lands. Next outing I'm going to go to .050" off. Don't want to go farther than that.
If I can't get better than that 1 MOA I just might have to do a bedding job on it. IMO I think a .270 WSM should shoot better than 1 MOA.
If I can't get better than that 1 MOA I just might have to do a bedding job on it. IMO I think a .270 WSM should shoot better than 1 MOA.
Last edited by bronko22000; 09-16-2019 at 01:22 PM.
09-17-2019, 04:57 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,905
I responded to your PM without putting two and two together about which bullet you’re using. I had an early morning conference call with my operations team, we’re a global group so I was up early to overlap, and not quite focused on the question, so I apologize for that.
NBT’s are typically very forgiving for jump, so I’m not surprised they shot well even with a large jump, but usually I expect them to shoot better than that at short jump.
As far as bedding the action, here’s my logic:
1) I don’t want any external influences on my barrels, so I free float my barrel.
2) That freefloating mass has powerful leverage to shift the action in the stock, so I know I need to fully support the action, such I bed my actions.
3) If I expect consistent support, I need to eliminate opportunity for variability in action bolt tension pulling the action into the bedding. Almost all common stock materials are at least somewhat malleable, and otherwise sensitive to one or another influence. Wood stocks especially can vary dimensionally with environmental shifts, polymer stocks can warp in heat or flex with shooter pressure, and all 3 non-metal materials, polymer, composite/fiberglass/carbon fiber, and wood can crush slightly over time and pressure. So I pillar block my actions.
Of course, that doesn’t happen on the bench in that actual order, but only describes my logical pathway. “Can’t have one, without the other.”
I also use a magnetic base dial indicator to measure the efficacy of my bedding jobs. If anything moves, I start over.
NBT’s are typically very forgiving for jump, so I’m not surprised they shot well even with a large jump, but usually I expect them to shoot better than that at short jump.
As far as bedding the action, here’s my logic:
1) I don’t want any external influences on my barrels, so I free float my barrel.
2) That freefloating mass has powerful leverage to shift the action in the stock, so I know I need to fully support the action, such I bed my actions.
3) If I expect consistent support, I need to eliminate opportunity for variability in action bolt tension pulling the action into the bedding. Almost all common stock materials are at least somewhat malleable, and otherwise sensitive to one or another influence. Wood stocks especially can vary dimensionally with environmental shifts, polymer stocks can warp in heat or flex with shooter pressure, and all 3 non-metal materials, polymer, composite/fiberglass/carbon fiber, and wood can crush slightly over time and pressure. So I pillar block my actions.
Of course, that doesn’t happen on the bench in that actual order, but only describes my logical pathway. “Can’t have one, without the other.”
I also use a magnetic base dial indicator to measure the efficacy of my bedding jobs. If anything moves, I start over.
09-19-2019, 04:45 AM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: WY
Posts: 2,056
I'm late to the party here, but since this is a "reloading" thread... I see you're doing all the standard experiments, but I'm not seeing much data on your loads. For starters, I don't find that IMR4350, though it's one of my clear favorites, is the "do-all" for every cartridge. How's your loading process? When I was young, I was all about stuffing the fastest load listed for my powder into the case and topping it with a cool bullet. For hunting, those "garage loads" were usually fine, but really no better - and usually worse, accuracy-wise - than factory loads. It wasn't until I started shooting competitively past 600 yards that I got serious about my loading processes.
I see that you're posting what I'm assuming are velocities, so I'm assuming that you're using a chronograph? What are the stats behind them? Extreme spread? Standard Deviation?
I see that you're posting what I'm assuming are velocities, so I'm assuming that you're using a chronograph? What are the stats behind them? Extreme spread? Standard Deviation?
09-19-2019, 07:07 AM
#9
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,746
I'm late to the party here, but since this is a "reloading" thread... I see you're doing all the standard experiments, but I'm not seeing much data on your loads. For starters, I don't find that IMR4350, though it's one of my clear favorites, is the "do-all" for every cartridge. How's your loading process? When I was young, I was all about stuffing the fastest load listed for my powder into the case and topping it with a cool bullet. For hunting, those "garage loads" were usually fine, but really no better - and usually worse, accuracy-wise - than factory loads. It wasn't until I started shooting competitively past 600 yards that I got serious about my loading processes.
I see that you're posting what I'm assuming are velocities, so I'm assuming that you're using a chronograph? What are the stats behind them? Extreme spread? Standard Deviation?
I see that you're posting what I'm assuming are velocities, so I'm assuming that you're using a chronograph? What are the stats behind them? Extreme spread? Standard Deviation?
I was having accuracy issues with this rifle since I purchased it used. And if you go to my other thread in the "Guns" forum you will see why. I believe it is a bedding issue. I currently have the stock/action in the vise while the epoxy is curing. I hope this resolves my problem.
