Reloading Share techniques for reloading, where to get the hottest in reloading equipment and learn how to reload from fellow hunters.

Ocw

Old 08-20-2019, 01:48 PM
  #21  
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
 
bronko22000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,738
Default

Wow, 800 - 1000 rounds? That seems crazy. I would think that barrels aren't even broken in until they have at least that many rounds through them.
bronko22000 is offline  
Old 08-20-2019, 04:47 PM
  #22  
Nontypical Buck
 
Nomercy448's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,898
Default

Originally Posted by bronko22000
How many rounds have you had through that barrel before you thought it was time for a new one?
It depends upon the cartridge. For competition rifles like @Big Uncle and I are talking about, “death comes on swift wings.” Break in - meaning where velocity seems to stabilize and the rifle seems to find itself - is typically around 100-200rnds. Then for these competition rounds, groups might start to open at 800, velocity start slipping at 1000-1200. A Benchrester has to give up on a barrel at that first mark. A Precision Rifle Competitor can hang on a bit longer, waiting for the velocity to fall. We can win matches with a 3/4-1moa rifle - we just need every round to fly at the same speed.

The barrel on my main match rifle last season was a Rock Creek tube, the beginning of the end started around 500 rounds. It was losing ~15fps per 100rnds by 1000rnds. I was stuck with it to finish the competition season, which took me through 1470 rounds. I spun it off at 1471 rounds - which was at least 600 rounds too late. It held onto enough accuracy to compete in PRS, but the velocity was a terrible downhill slide. I ended the season shooting a high node load, 1.5grns higher than where I started the season, and was still something like 200fps slower!

The replacement barrel this season is at 794 rounds currently, and holding onto the exact same speed for the last 3 work-ups. I have about 700 rounds left on the match schedule for this season, then it’ll come off and get replaced for next season. The only reason I made it through the season on one tube is the fact I lost 2 months of season due to work schedule, and missed several matches. I HAD planned to change barrels between 4th of July and now, but I missed enough matches early on to make this barrel last all season. I also did my practice with other rifles to save my match rifle.

It’s all about the accuracy demand/expectation for the application, and the overbore ratio of your cartridge. Like @Big Uncle mentioned, my first 6.5-284 barrel for 600/1000yrd benchrest was toast after 800 rounds. I shot a 243AI for a while which was already done by 700. Alternatively, I used to expect 3500-4000rnds from a Service Rifle barrel. For PRS, we don’t have to shoot quite as small as benchresters, we just need consistent velocity and ~3/4moa. Rounds like 6x47L and 6 creed should make it 1200-1500rnds before failing to make the grade for PRS, but they’d be toast long before that for benchrest. We expect a bit more from the 6BR based cartridges. Guys running 6.5 Creed might get 2500-3000.

We also have to consider the logistics of replacement. I have/had 3 matches in 3 weekends this month, then leave for a hunting trip next week, then 3 matches in 6wks to finish out my season. I don’t have time to have my rifle out at a smith for a month, then spend another week or two in load development right now - I need my barrel to hang on and make it through the State and Regional Finales. But even if it DOES make it through the end of the season, I’m going to change the barrel this winter, so I start next season with a fresh tube. I’ll shoot two rifles next season so I know I will make it through an even heavier match schedule next year, and rebarrel both at the end.

The good news - or maybe just the “reality,” since it’s not really good news - is the fact the barrel really isn’t so expensive in the scheme of things. I generally figure $250-350 for Regional level PRS/NRL matches, and $800-1000 per National level PRS/NRL match. Lower level guys like me might shoot one or two Regional matches per month during season, and 2 or 3 National level matches - good for about 6-7 small matches and 2-3 big ones. That’s 1400-1800 rounds - easily finishing out a barrel in one season, good for about $700 in replacement cost. BUT - spending over $3,000 in match fees, hotel, reloaded ammo, fuel, and food on the road. So the barrel cost isn’t really terribly consequential.


Last edited by Nomercy448; 08-20-2019 at 04:53 PM.
Nomercy448 is offline  
Old 08-21-2019, 05:14 AM
  #23  
Nontypical Buck
 
Big Uncle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,780
Default

Yep, barrels age kind of like people. You will not see any Olympic gymnasts above a certain age, tennis players last longer, but you can play golf (at some level) as long as you can walk and swing your arms. It all comes down to the demands of your sport. Club level competition barrels last a long time and hunting rifle barrels usually last a lifetime or two unless you mistreat them. I do know some prairie dog shooters that cook their barrels often but they are exceptions to the rule. A mild cartridge like the 6.5 Creed, 7-08, etc. should be easy on barrels and bang those steel plates for a long time.
Big Uncle is offline  
Old 08-21-2019, 07:34 AM
  #24  
Nontypical Buck
 
Nomercy448's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,898
Default

Originally Posted by Big Uncle
A mild cartridge like the 6.5 Creed, 7-08, etc. should be easy on barrels and bang those steel plates for a long time.
They’ll last a long, long time if you aren’t shooting competition. The disadvantages for the game are too steep though. I have a 7-08 with something around 5,000rnds on the tube, still shoots well enough to hunt with, but definitely not stable enough to take 275 shots in a weekend and think my last will impact the same elevation at 1000yrds as my first.

It has been a few years since anyone has used a 7mm anything and made it to the PRS Finale. The 6.5 creed is hanging around, but it hasn’t been a favorite among experienced guys for several years already too. Only 3 shooters out of the top 125 in the PRS last season used a 6.5 Creed at the Finale (none in the top 10). Running a 6mm knocks 1/3 of the recoil off of your rifle, for free, and takes a few tenth mils off of your windage. It’s a win-win, until you start talking about barrel life. A lot of guys have gone to the smaller 6BR based cartridges (and by a lot, I mean almost half of the shooters who qualified for the NRL or PRS Finales last season), in an effort to expand barrel life without giving up low recoil and fast flight.

A lot of guys do start with long barrel life rounds like 6.5 creed or 308win, but they quickly realize how many points they lose due to the high recoil. If you can’t balance your rifle on the tip of a T post and see your impact on a 1moa target at 600yrds, either your rifle weighs too little, or your bullet weighs too much.

It’s all about the advantages under the rules of the game. Recoil is an extreme penalty.
Nomercy448 is offline  
Old 08-24-2019, 09:33 AM
  #25  
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
 
bronko22000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,738
Default

Well I'm not going to be shooting matches with mine. It will last me the rest of my life (however long God wants me to stay here). I just want the humble satisfaction of dinging steel plates or rocks at various distances with a rifle that is shooting to the best of its ability. I have a couple places near my house that I can set up to and take shots at game out to about 500 yards should i get proficient enough to do so.
bronko22000 is offline  
Old 08-24-2019, 12:17 PM
  #26  
Nontypical Buck
 
Nomercy448's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,898
Default

Originally Posted by bronko22000
Well I'm not going to be shooting matches with mine. It will last me the rest of my life (however long God wants me to stay here). I just want the humble satisfaction of dinging steel plates or rocks at various distances with a rifle that is shooting to the best of its ability. I have a couple places near my house that I can set up to and take shots at game out to about 500 yards should i get proficient enough to do so.
Get a couple 66% IPSC targets, 4 Shepherd Crook plant hangers from a local Garden Center, hanging bolts and 4 lengths of chain 18” long. Throw them out there at 500. Chronograph your load, establish a solid 100yrd zero. Put the velocity and bullet BC into Hornady’s online ballistic calculator. Print your 500yrd group on the left hand 66% target, and refine it to confirm on the right hand target.

As mentioned in another thread here this week, your target often dictates your group potential. 66% IPSC’s give great reference for square edges and aiming references. They’re 2.3moa wide by 3.8moa tall (3.0moa body, minus head), plenty to aim at for even a 3-9x scope, all the better for a higher magnification optic. Placing small groups on 66% IPSC’s as a development process is simple and straightforward.

The most important advice I can give - go shoot it. I recently took an old high school friend I had not seen in over 15yrs to a match with me. He had bought a Bergara B14 HMR over a year ago. Had never fired it past 400yrds, and wanted to get out to 1,000 “someday.” He posted as much on Facebook, which I rarely use, but that Sunday, I did, and I noticed his post. Within 6 days, I had his BC trued, velocity confirmed and he made impacts at 1088yrds during the match - connecting on his second shot ever past 1,000. Nothing magic, just making an opportunity to go do it, and then acting upon it. He hit a full size IPSC, 18” wide at 1,088 yards on his second shot, and hit it again with a 3rd. Can he shoot smaller? Probably. But on the clock, in a dynamic field position, and only with calculated data, connecting 2 out of 3, only missing once due to the 20+ mph wind value, it checked a box for him.
Nomercy448 is offline  
Old 08-27-2019, 06:22 PM
  #27  
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
 
bronko22000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,738
Default

Nomercy I'm going to have a lot to do before I get to that point. Everything is waiting for me when I get back up to PA. The rifle is at the gun shop. And I had a 20 MOA rail, rings, and dies sent to my friend's house. I do have a Zeiss Conquest 4-16X setting on my loading bench at home. But I was thinking of a Mueller 8-32x 44mm scope. I've seen good reviews on them and it may be good for my intended purpose AND my limited budget.
bronko22000 is offline  
Old 08-28-2019, 06:08 AM
  #28  
Nontypical Buck
 
rogerstv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: West Central Illinois
Posts: 1,099
Default

The Panhandle Precision videos on their website and on YouTube are worth watching.
rogerstv is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.