308 loads for a Rem. pump rifle.
 

I was tasked with loading for one of my club brothers his fathers pump 308 remington rifle. It hasnt been shot in 30yrs and he wants to use it for hogs and deer. Im wondering if I could load it like a bolt gun or are there pressure differences because of the action difference. Im kinda leaning towards the Horn. A-Max for I have a bunch of them, 155grn. It is box magazine fed. What do you guys have in mind?

It's not exactly the same reloading for the 7600 as it is for a bolt gun. The rotating bolt pump gun doesn't have the leverage advantage of the camming action of a bolt gun, so you have to be more persnickety about sizing on the feed in, and more tentative about pressure on the extraction out. Too little sizing and it just won't close, too much pressure and it'll be a bear to open. It's not complicated, if you follow proper load work up for a bolt gun, you'd do the same steps for a pump gun. Just that a guy can't get away with just bumping the shoulder or neck sizing only, and can't over drive the power factor

My brother uses the same 165gr Sierra game king (2140) loading in his Remington 760 carbine the same as mine I use in the Remington 700. Speed is between 2700 and 2800 FPS.


I think as long as you follow the book and work the loads up your going to be fine.




:D Al

yep, work the load for that rifle, I'm assuming its a 760 with the 9 lugs on the bolt, they don't fare well with hot loads, my bro-n-law swiped a handful of my handloads that I worked up for my rem. 660, they were 1/2 gr over max loaded with IMR 4350, he shot 1, and couldn't extract it, least he never stole any of my ammo again.
RR

Another thing about loading for a pump. Like NoMercy said they don't have the caming force a bolt does. I had a 760 in .308 that had a very tight chamber. I had to purchase a small base sizing die so the action would close.

I think Bonko hit the nail on the head. I could have sworn I read somewhere where they recommend small base resizing dies for pumps and semi-auto rifles as well as working up your loads slowly so they don't get stuck in the chamber.

Good information here. use Small base dies, avoid maximum loads, clean your chamber regularly and meticulously, lubricate the bolt regularly. For semiautos, keep to medium rate powders, in the 3031 to Varget/RL15 range. Slower powders can cause problems with extraction and occasionally damage older operating systems.

why use small base dies? all your doing if you don't absolutely have to have them is shortening case life
RR

Problem is RR, with a whole hell of a lot of Pumpers, especially the Rems, you DO absolutely need them. My old Rem 760 .30-06 had absolutely the tightest chamber of any factory barreled rifle I have ever had. Add to that the weak cam and you have a recipe for stuck cases. I think that is the only rifle I have ever owned, with necked cases, that I didn't fire form and neck size only for. I'd rather deal with a couple less loads on the cases than having to break out the cleaning rod and mallet to dink the case out.

yours was not the norm, the 742's/760's used to be very popular have messed with a couple dozen of them, never had 1 that needed small base dies. my personal 760 in 270 hasn't fired a factory load in 40 years, regular dies, have never trimmed a case for it.
RR

Mine was the same way RR

The 760 rem pump .270 and the 30-06 was, and probably still is one of the most popular rifles in Pa. Had a lot of reloaders out there having to tap out cases. Of course many of them were trying to hot rod the loads but I saw several other than mine that had moderate loads getting stuck. Thing is RR, most people that hunt don't go shooting those pumpers at the range like you and I do so case life has little meaning to them for those particular rifles. They shoot them enough to find a particularly accurate load then shoot to sight in and thats it. So typically 2 or 3 loads on a case is more than enough for them.

Good info in all replies. I am new to the pump centerfire reloading scene. I will see what goes from here. Thanks again!!

I finally found a load that makes my buddies Remmy 308 pump rifle sing. I found that Reloader 15, Winchester Brass, Winchester LR primers, 155grn Hornady A-Maxx loaded at 2.815" C.O.L shoots wonders. I saw the first 4 made the lower group and just HAD to go and shoot the 5th. That one landed high. Still had a .585" C/C!!!!! Thats 3 in the bottom right group!!!! I was using the bottom of the black ring as my hold. Sighted perfect for what he wants to use it for. 5-3/4" high for a 325yd POI. I didnt think it was too shabby for a pumper!!!

Glad you found a load that worked.


I own about 12 reloading manuals I've picked up over time. Each and every one has one bit of information almost word for word in them. Start low and work up to find what works for you, do not exceed max loads.


I just had to go look at a couple yesterday. Did not find any that said loads for auto loaders only nor any that said for pump rifles only.
Seems your stuck with the start low and work up rule if you are loading for a pump or auto loader rifle.


:D Al

I used load data for 308 rifle for you will not find any that specify for pump or bolt. You will find some for auto, but only military style match rifle. I started at the lower middle end and just came up 1/2grn increments. I as well have many loading manuals that I have bought over the years and usually refer to them when doing something like this.
I also have come to find more often than not, that most rifle like to run about 3/4 throttle. You can start seeing the groups react about 5/8ths one way or the other. By the time I get to 3/4, I more than likely know where its going to go and save the rest of the ammo.

Alley - Crazy you didn't find any autoloader sections in any of your manuals. 5.56 and 7.62 "Service Rifle" sections are very common.

Two things have to happen, both pretty simple - the round has to go into the chamber to be fired, then the case has to come out again after the shot. Getting rounds to feed into the chamber isn't rocket science - it has to be sized small enough to slide in and close without relying upon strong camming force from the bolt handle. I've not found semi-autos or pumps to commonly really need to be sized with a small base die, but full length sizing is usually needed, or at least beneficial for reliable feeding. Getting fired rounds out of the chamber without the aid of camming advantage in these models is also simple - it can't be so stretched to the chamber to stick. What might be a little stickiness in bolt lift in a bolt gun can present itself as a stuck slide in a pump gun.

But for SecondChance - looks like that dog'll hunt!

That dogs huntn like a fool!!!! Thanks NoMercy448. I didn't really feel that by comparing the service rifle data to this was weapon was comparable, being a pump vs a gas driven weapon. But I do have it when and if I come across the need to use it.
And as far as using the small base die, SO FAR I have had no issues with any rounds that I have loaded to that rifle. We have shot nearly 100 to date with nary so much as a tad of stickiness upon removal using both FL dies and NS dies. I keep my brass for situations like this to each particular rifle. Keeping the chamber fired cases to the weapon. Saves headaches later I have come to find out over the years.

I guess mine wasn't the norm either because even full length sized cases from a standard die (cases fired from the same 760) would not chamber unless the bolt was slammed hard forward. Any babying of the pump and the case was stuck. A small base die solved the problem and feeding was never a problem again. Better to have a few less loads from a case than unreliable feeding. Especially in a rifle solely used for hunting.

Upon reading these past posts got my thinker to thinkin. I took some new brass, got my buddies SB die, my FL and NS die. I loaded 10 rounds with each. I mic'd all the brass and weighed. I prepped all brass the same to ensure uniformity. I shot all the rounds one behind the other. Only way to know which was which was by primer color. I had my buddy shoot the other 5 of each to see if he could get a difference. All rounds ran without so much as a hitch. All rounds were shot feeding from the magazine to include that into the mix as well. O' well, so much for scientific experiments!!!!!!

You said new brass - how different were the base diameters after sizing for SB, FL, and NS?

More importantly then - what was the base diameter after 3x firing? If it's new brass, it was FL sized when it was made, so I wouldn't be surprised to hear there wasn't much, or any, difference in the bases, despite 3 different dies being used. But given 2-3 firings, the difference might reveal itself.

NoMercy, That's one thing that I didn't measure for I figured that the stuck cases would result from shoulder/neck area issues. More times than not, when I have had to work on clients weapons, that's where I find 95% of my problems. Then its the chamber more times than not after that. I am free of the weapon now and its back in Texas with 1K rounds to slay beasts down there for another 50yrs!!!