3006, Imr 4350 and cci 200
10-16-2015, 11:54 AM
#11
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 115
[QUOTE=Big Uncle;4223684]As to the temperature sensitivity of IMR 4350 - I chronograph my loads in different temperatures and only see about a difference of less than 100 fps in my 30-06 loads from 80 degree sessions and 0 degree sessions. That will probably be an adjustment of a maybe couple of tenths of an inch at 100 yards and somewhere around an inch at 300 yards. For most hunting purposes I do not think it is significant.
Of course every rifle is a law unto itself and the rifle may shoot to a slightly different point of impact at different temperatures and humidity for reasons such as bedding. It is good practice to simply shoot the rifle/ammo combination under different conditions.
I developed loads during the heat of the summer at nearly sea level at high humidity and shot them at a range at 20 degrees at 9,000+ feet of elevation with well bedded synthetic stocks and often had 3" adjustments at the 300 yard targets. That is still "minute of elk" but is definitely a measurable difference.[/As to the temperature sensitivity of IMR 4350 - I chronograph my loads in different temperatures and only see about a difference of less than 100 fps in my 30-06 loads from 80 degree sessions and 0 degree sessions. That will probably be an adjustment of a maybe couple of tenths of an inch at 100 yards and somewhere around an inch at 300 yards. For most hunting purposes I do not think it is significant.
Thanks for posting this , I really wanted to ask about the poi shift . I know mileage will very but still good to know.
I guess pics can't be posted in this forum, I took pictures of my targets.
Of course every rifle is a law unto itself and the rifle may shoot to a slightly different point of impact at different temperatures and humidity for reasons such as bedding. It is good practice to simply shoot the rifle/ammo combination under different conditions.
I developed loads during the heat of the summer at nearly sea level at high humidity and shot them at a range at 20 degrees at 9,000+ feet of elevation with well bedded synthetic stocks and often had 3" adjustments at the 300 yard targets. That is still "minute of elk" but is definitely a measurable difference.[/As to the temperature sensitivity of IMR 4350 - I chronograph my loads in different temperatures and only see about a difference of less than 100 fps in my 30-06 loads from 80 degree sessions and 0 degree sessions. That will probably be an adjustment of a maybe couple of tenths of an inch at 100 yards and somewhere around an inch at 300 yards. For most hunting purposes I do not think it is significant.
Thanks for posting this , I really wanted to ask about the poi shift . I know mileage will very but still good to know.
I guess pics can't be posted in this forum, I took pictures of my targets.
10-16-2015, 01:27 PM
#12
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,746
I switched to the Varget from IMR4350 in the 06's a good while back. My POI from a 24 inch barrel was noticeably lower at 200 at lower temps. Others results may vary. Noticeably lower was 2.5 inches. That may not be someone else's results or some may not consider that a good enough amount to be worrisome. It was to me. But I am a stickler for precision.
As to the temperature sensitivity of IMR 4350 - I chronograph my loads in different temperatures and only see about a difference of less than 100 fps in my 30-06 loads from 80 degree sessions and 0 degree sessions. That will probably be an adjustment of a maybe couple of tenths of an inch at 100 yards and somewhere around an inch at 300 yards. For most hunting purposes I do not think it is significant.
Of course every rifle is a law unto itself and the rifle may shoot to a slightly different point of impact at different temperatures and humidity for reasons such as bedding. It is good practice to simply shoot the rifle/ammo combination under different conditions.
I developed loads during the heat of the summer at nearly sea level at high humidity and shot them at a range at 20 degrees at 9,000+ feet of elevation with well bedded synthetic stocks and often had 3" adjustments at the 300 yard targets. That is still "minute of elk" but is definitely a measurable difference.
Of course every rifle is a law unto itself and the rifle may shoot to a slightly different point of impact at different temperatures and humidity for reasons such as bedding. It is good practice to simply shoot the rifle/ammo combination under different conditions.
I developed loads during the heat of the summer at nearly sea level at high humidity and shot them at a range at 20 degrees at 9,000+ feet of elevation with well bedded synthetic stocks and often had 3" adjustments at the 300 yard targets. That is still "minute of elk" but is definitely a measurable difference.
I'm like you though Super. I strive for perfection. If I have a hunting rifle that's shooting more than MOA I will keep tinkering with it until it gets to where I want it. If I can't it goes back to the gun shop and sits on their used rack and I get a new one.
10-16-2015, 03:01 PM
#13
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Eastern wv
Posts: 3,647
Imr 4350 is a single based powder, varget is a single based powder, the more temp sensitive powders are the double based or "ball" powders, the "exreme powder" designation by hodgdon is no more than a marketing ploy, double base powders contain nitroglycerine as well as the ingredient nitrocellulose which is what single based powders consist of, nitroglycerin makes them more temp sensitive.
If you were aware of it, as soon as handloaders figured out all powders were somewhat temp sensitive, and the ball powders even more so, hodgdon then labeled all they're single based powders as "extreme".
Just FYI double based powders are a bit more temp sensitive, but if you work up a load under the conditions you hunt under, double based powders will prolong barrel life due to a lower flame temp which is easier on the throat.
RR
If you were aware of it, as soon as handloaders figured out all powders were somewhat temp sensitive, and the ball powders even more so, hodgdon then labeled all they're single based powders as "extreme".
Just FYI double based powders are a bit more temp sensitive, but if you work up a load under the conditions you hunt under, double based powders will prolong barrel life due to a lower flame temp which is easier on the throat.
RR
10-16-2015, 04:20 PM
#14
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 115
Imr 4350 is a single based powder, varget is a single based powder, the more temp sensitive powders are the double based or "ball" powders, the "exreme powder" designation by hodgdon is no more than a marketing ploy, double base powders contain nitroglycerine as well as the ingredient nitrocellulose which is what single based powders consist of, nitroglycerin makes them more temp sensitive.
If you were aware of it, as soon as handloaders figured out all powders were somewhat temp sensitive, and the ball powders even more so, hodgdon then labeled all they're single based powders as "extreme".
Just FYI double based powders are a bit more temp sensitive, but if you work up a load under the conditions you hunt under, double based powders will prolong barrel life due to a lower flame temp which is easier on the throat.
RR
If you were aware of it, as soon as handloaders figured out all powders were somewhat temp sensitive, and the ball powders even more so, hodgdon then labeled all they're single based powders as "extreme".
Just FYI double based powders are a bit more temp sensitive, but if you work up a load under the conditions you hunt under, double based powders will prolong barrel life due to a lower flame temp which is easier on the throat.
RR
06
12-19-2015, 10:22 AM
#16
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,746
12-26-2015, 03:43 AM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,834
I JUST finished up my buddies rifle in a Savage 110 lightweight configuration and settled on 53.5grns of IMR 4350 powder, CCI 200 primers and Hornady 150grn A-Max's. Shot 5 sub MOA groups back to back groups. 2 were stored in the freezer for 24hrs and taken to range on ice in a qt baggie. 2 were left at room temp and the last was put on the defroster vent for 20 min drive on high.
The hot ones were shot first, then the room temp ones were shot next and finally the frozen ones. Not enough difference to notice the difference!!!!!!! I let the barrel cool 10mins between groups to keep it fair.
These loads were also loaded .010 off the lands.
The hot ones were shot first, then the room temp ones were shot next and finally the frozen ones. Not enough difference to notice the difference!!!!!!! I let the barrel cool 10mins between groups to keep it fair.
These loads were also loaded .010 off the lands.
Last edited by SecondChance; 01-02-2016 at 05:51 AM.
12-26-2015, 08:00 AM
#19
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 115
Thanks Second Chance for sharing that.
About a month ago I went back with my loads of 56 gr of Imr 4350 and my nosler factory loads , both 165 gr bullets.
The temp I started at was in the upper 30's.
I shot the factory loads first to foul the bore , each shot was from a cold barrel ( 6 shots) at over an inch in groups.
The factory rounds were sub moa at 70* temps back to back shots prior to this second session.
I started with my hand loads , temps still in the upper 30's.
Every shot from a cold bore gave me slightly over an inch group ( still at the poa) except 3 rounds back to back were in the same hole.
I would like to figure out how to get sub moa with cold bore shots.
Nosler uses WLR primers and I'm using cci 200 with the same out come but my loads look better than nosler factory on paper with cold bore shots.
I have taken two deer with my loads so far and each deer were shot at two different poi's just to see if their going where I aim.
Thanks again !
About a month ago I went back with my loads of 56 gr of Imr 4350 and my nosler factory loads , both 165 gr bullets.
The temp I started at was in the upper 30's.
I shot the factory loads first to foul the bore , each shot was from a cold barrel ( 6 shots) at over an inch in groups.
The factory rounds were sub moa at 70* temps back to back shots prior to this second session.
I started with my hand loads , temps still in the upper 30's.
Every shot from a cold bore gave me slightly over an inch group ( still at the poa) except 3 rounds back to back were in the same hole.
I would like to figure out how to get sub moa with cold bore shots.
Nosler uses WLR primers and I'm using cci 200 with the same out come but my loads look better than nosler factory on paper with cold bore shots.
I have taken two deer with my loads so far and each deer were shot at two different poi's just to see if their going where I aim.
Thanks again !
12-26-2015, 08:05 AM
#20
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Eastern wv
Posts: 3,647
try some federal 210GM primers, I get better results with them. also my post never stated IMR was temp sensitive, it is single based, about as temp stable as you can get and one of my favorite, most versatile powders from IMR
RR
RR
Last edited by Ridge Runner; 12-26-2015 at 08:11 AM.