Alliant Powder
 

Wrote alliant complaining about the old data for various bullets are gone. All that is left is Speer. Explained that speer is probably of the least used bullets out there. They wrote back (2 months later) and explained that new set of data was taken by thier sister corp "speer" and from now on, only speer data is to be used unless a speer bullet is not available.

What a bunch of crap. I wrote back and explained how much harm this does alliant powder. Asked if we could at least have exposure to the old data set. Got back a hard "no".

I swear I think the executives that make these decisions have no clue when they drive these companies in the ground. What a poor decision.

I like RL22 and 25, and unique, but screw em. Hodgdon has everything I need.

That is not surprising. I have a pretty low opinion of them too.

I've been meaning to post this here in case anyone else had as much trouble finding it as I have:


They announced the release of their power pro powders. I kept looking in the online recipes for months for data for the new powders. I stumbled across this manual one day.

I see what you mean about it all being Speer data. I didn't notice that before. They've actually done that for a few years as the last three I've saved are that way.

Another Alliant gripe of mine is they've never bothered to improve alliant Steel powder. It gives the best performance with steel shot, but it such a pain to use.

Yet another gripe is the errors in the dead tree versions of their free data manual. You'd have spacers listed in recipes one year and none the next for the same recipes. Also pellet counts listed in one for lead loads, but the weights are taken out due to a computer glitch. Editor anyone? Their website sucks too.

Now with some new wads that have come out, there are some recipes for H Longshot. They don't handle as much payload, but they load easy and have the speed. So I may not use as much Steel now either.

I've come to consider most reloading manuals as a gimmick to sell you bullets. But for the life of me, I can't remember when I bought Speer bullets last, maybe in the late 80s? Can't even find them on the shelves anymore, unlike Hornady and Sierra here locally.

About the only thing I use a manual for now is a starting point when I'm developing loads. After that, it's off to the range, find one that shoots well, chrono it, and if I'm really curious run it through an exterior ballistics program with the BCs provided by the bullet manufacturer. And now, you can find lots of load information online. So, the old reloading manuals are really becoming a thing of the past.

There are a couple Alliant powders that I like, but I'm pretty solidly in the Hodgdon camp now, too (particularly Clays, Varget, and IMR4350).

I think you have completely missed the point. They had good solid data, and now they refuse to show it or share it to push speer bullets.

RL22 is my favorite powder, hands down. I go through about 5 pounds of RL22 for every one of any other.

I always got my reloading data from the bullet manufacturer so I won't miss the data. But it is a stupid move on their part.

I don't think I have any Speer bullets. I have Barnes and Nosler for hunting and Hornady and Sierra for paper punching.

I have one old Speer manual and don't like it. The loads are anemic and they were critical in their little spiel about my beloved 300 Weatherby. :biggrin:

Its free...you get more out of it than what you paid for.

I don't think so. They don't give out data just because they want to be your blood brother in reloading. They do it, to sell powder. They do it, to get folks to look at thier powder first.

Here's some good advise to newbies. "ain't nothing free in this world" You can live by that.

what your saying is directions to putting a grill together is free, no, its an important part of the product as a whole. Sure, I can go thru experimentation and playing around putting parts where they look like they should go, but thats not acceptable.

I am not sure how some of your guys are missing it, and its been explained clearly. They have data for a variety of both cup and core and solid shank bullets but refuse to give it now to push sale of thier sister companies bullets.

It's been awhile since I've seen anything but Speer bullets associated to any kind of data coming from Alliant, with just a few scattered exceptions. Sure, it's sort of annoying, especially when you compare data from other powder manufacturers like Hodgdon, who lists just bullet weights and matches them to various Hodgdon propellants.

I'm surprised that this would be an issue for you, though. You don't at all strike me as a guy who'd depend at all on anyone else's research for anything but a starting point?

I have three manuals here handy (Speer 11 and 14, and Hodgdon 26). With a 165 gr SPBT backed by 54.0 of IMR4350 (min), Speer 11 says 2658 fps, Speer 14 says 2476 fps, and Hodgdon 26 says 2634 fps. With 56.5 gr (which performs the best out of my rifle), my chrono says 2782 fps. The only load that matters to me is the last one, which isn't found in any of the three manuals.

Who cares if Alliant's pushing Speer while you're wanting to shoot someone else's bullet? Find a Speer in what data Alliant does provide with a weight identical and BC close to what you want to shoot, start from the low end with the Alliant powder you want to use, and work up to something that shoots well and doesn't send you signals of excess pressure. Or, Speer 14's loaded with Alliant propellants and "like" Speer projectiles to what I shoot (generally Hornadys) - close enough in any case that I could come up with a safe starting load to work up from.

Maybe I did miss the point as you intended. Okay, Alliant's old data is gone. You took your case to them. Maybe they're schmucks, but would that alone stop you from using their propellant?

I see what he's saying. Let's reverse it:

I love by Barnes bullets. I have all the manuals and have been shooting them forever.

What if Barnes had an exclusive deal and only published loads for IMR4350? I'd open up the manual and be very frustrated.

Well, barnes is the reason I am aggitated a bit. IMO, barnes loads are hot, in fact, very hot, I usually drop down 1 or 2 gr from thier starting point. Alliants data was always reasonable. A few cowboy hot loads.

Its not that I feel crippled by this, just a pass by to see some data and am like "who was the freakin idiot at ATK that made this decision".

And even the solid shank bullets wouldn't be a big deal if they at least had some TBBC loads which I thought speer owned?

Not missin a thing. Been doin it long enough to know how to use the information available and certainly long before there were a bunch of geniuses on the internet telling me how.
Anyone who has used an Accurate Arms loading book can see that even if they don't use their 'sister' company bullets exclusively they are very bias in what they do use.
I expect that in time it will be more the norm with Hodgdon, AA and any other powder company that buys there way into a bullet manufacturer.

does any one have, or is it even possible, a load for a 7-08 using rl22

If you believe that its free, then nope, you missed everything that is intuitively obvious to anyone who does reload.

Nothing is free in this world. One day you might learn that.

You know guys, I just don't get why there are some on these forums who oppose simple conversation.

I mean to those who are critical of every statement, what is wrong with pointing out the ludicrous practices of companies? Whats so wrong with talking about it?

Its called whining. One day you might learn that.

This is exactly what I am talking about. You sit here on these forums and just wait to take swipes at people. I mean it would be so odd for a guy like you to just say, "yea it doens't make sense, but its just the way it is."

Whats wrong with just a forum just discussing it without the flip attitudes?

And if your not interested, why even comment?

To you its only a simple conversation if others agree. I do not. Nothing flippant about it. Its just a fact.

Ok, then why even comment if it doesn't interest you. Do you know what the definition of flippency is? Dismissive.

Its possible, but I would bet poor performance. Here's why. RL22 loves to run hot. Never seen a powder perform better at max pressures. In 7mm-08, it will be worse than 4350 for compression and I love that load. And you will never reach 55K CUP or 60KPSI. You will run out of room with 48gr of RL22 and it will be slow as crap.

I have never tried it. But this is just observations on experience trying slow powder in limited capacity cases like this.

Anyway, I have a pdf file with older data from Alliant. If anyone wants it I can email it to ya. Just pM me.

I think RL22 is way too slow for that small case and probably short barrel.

I've had the best luck with that case using IMR4895.

OK
I picked up some H414 today what do you think of this stuff
win 760 is doing pretty good in my 120's varget hasnt been doing good for me in 120's or 140's
Looking to try something new. what you reccomend.

Never shot H414. I have always stuck with IMR4064, Varget and IMR4350. But if didn't like Varget, not sure 4064 will do you any better. I have a bunch of BLC-2 I am thinking about trying.

zrexpilot... I agree with the above posters that RL 22 would probably be too slow for the 7mm08... RL 15 performs the best in my 7mm08 with 120 grain bullets, at least of the powders I have tried.. Haven't tried the H414...

I've had good luck with 4064 with 140 grain bullets...

4895 is a good choice as far as burn rate goes I have never been impressed with it's accuracy in my rifles... With RL15 I get tighter groups and somewhat higher velocity..

I must admit that I've never shot that powder in a 7mm-08. I load for two 308 Wins. But they are the same case so I know the powder is efficient for that size case. Our 308s shoot well with IMR4895 behind 150gr Barnes TSX bullets. I believe the velocity is 2945fps.

WW 760 is a great powder choice in the 7mm-08. I believe Remington used a non-canister grade of that powder in their factory loads at one time.
Will

Thats what I was gonna say Will. Except I thought thats what they still used for their 140 core lokts.


Zrex.. I know all the manuals I looked at here seem to list very good velocity from 760 and 414.