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-   Reloading (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/reloading-15/)
-   -   Loading Close to the Lands (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/reloading/289430-loading-close-lands.html)

bigcountry 03-19-2009 12:59 PM
RE: Loading Close to the Lands
 
ORIGINAL: eldeguello

It is the length of the leade part of the chambering reamer that determines this, not how close the barrels are screwed in......
I agree, but I have seen gunsmiths with a special reamer that only cuts headspaced used.

devil dog 03-19-2009 02:34 PM
RE: Loading Close to the Lands
 
ORIGINAL: eldeguello

It is the length of the leade part of the chambering reamer that determines this, not how close the barrels are screwed in......
A free gunsmith lesson!, yes leade is built on the reamer, but that depends on the reamer used. Now when you do a set-back, you are cutting metal off the chamber side of the barrel were the threads screw into the receiver, one thread is appx. .190, depending on the thread pitch,so now you can fix headspace or an extra long throat to that point, and by turning another thread on the bottom side you can index the barrel with the sights in the correct position. Now you have a short chamber, with a match or a custom reamer, that doesnt have much or any leade, cut the new chamber to a tight S.A.A.M.I. or a custom chamber to your liking without the excesive leade the manufactors build into it to cover their buts "because our country became so SUE crazy".
As far as the Wylde chamber, that is another thing the manufactors use to cover their buts!, due to the fact that there is so much military surplus and it will function in a .223 chamber, the manufactors made the leade in the .223 chamber longerto accomidate the 5.56 in commecial rifles to keep the presures down, but it is still shorter than the 5.56 chamber because most commecial rifles WONT be functioning fully automatic. Armalite, Bushmaster, DPMS and others also have their form of the Wylde chamber that Rock River/Wilson uses.
As far as shortening the leade to accurize a rifle, it does little, mostly it just saves the first portion of the lands and grooves because there isnt as much jump at ignition. That is why I said to just rebarrel, you get much better material and workmanship in a name brand barrel than messing with a stock barrel, but thats not to say you cant get a shooter out of a stock gun.

devil dog 03-19-2009 05:51 PM
RE: Loading Close to the Lands
 
ORIGINAL: Ridge Runner

the original wylde chamber prints state a leade .040" longer than the 5.56 chambers.
RR
So the rest of this will make sense, the following dimensions are all based on an overall cartridge length that will have a Sierra 80-grain MatchKing bullet just touching the lands when the round is chambered. We don't all shoot Sierra 80-grain MatchKings, and we don't all set them to touch the lands, but most competitive High Power Rifle shooters do both. At the least it's a "standard" that gives us a point to work from. What I call the "Derrick Chamber" (Derrick Martin of Accuracy Speaks) needs an overall cartridge length of 2.442"; the "Wylde Chamber" (for competition-use AR-15 pioneer Bill Wylde) is 2.445"; the "AMU Chamber" (for U.S. Army competition team) is 2.500". There are others, but these are the most popular among competition rifle builders. A SAAMI chamber is normally about 2.410"; a NATO chamber is normally about 2.550". Those are huge differences, and I counted five different reamers just mentioned here.
Ridge Runner, here is just some info on some chamber sizes, I'll try to find a website I was on befor, it showed the different chamber sizes in blueprint form. As you can see, the Wylde chamber is in fact .105 shorter than the NATO chamber.

devil dog 03-20-2009 06:33 AM
RE: Loading Close to the Lands
 
Ridge Runner, I'm not trying to start a argument call you a dummy or nothing, from most of your post I reed your a pretty level headed person thats got some commen sense, just a little confused I think in this case.A simple question was asked, you mentioned the Wylde chamber and I thought I should mention what the reasonings were behind it. Now, with that being said, it is hard to explain and even harder to type, so I'm not going to try, the only thing that I can suggest is to sit down with some measuring devices and figure what the leade will be.
This is a machine drawing of the dimensions of the reamers, not the finished chamber!,you need to look at more than just the length of the freebore N, you also need to look at thethroat angle R, and the freebore diameter Gto determine the acual size of the leade. If we figured your way, it would be the compleate opposite, you could shoot 5.56 Nato in a .223 chamber, but you could not shoot .223 in a 5.56 Nato chamber without pressures building.


bigcountry 03-20-2009 08:50 AM
RE: Loading Close to the Lands
 
ORIGINAL: devil dog

ORIGINAL: eldeguello

It is the length of the leade part of the chambering reamer that determines this, not how close the barrels are screwed in......
A free gunsmith lesson!, yes leade is built on the reamer, but that depends on the reamer used. Now when you do a set-back, you are cutting metal off the chamber side of the barrel were the threads screw into the receiver, one thread is appx. .190, depending on the thread pitch,so now you can fix headspace or an extra long throat to that point, and by turning another thread on the bottom side you can index the barrel with the sights in the correct position. Now you have a short chamber, with a match or a custom reamer, that doesnt have much or any leade, cut the new chamber to a tight S.A.A.M.I. or a custom chamber to your liking without the excesive leade the manufactors build into it to cover their buts "because our country became so SUE crazy".
As far as the Wylde chamber, that is another thing the manufactors use to cover their buts!, due to the fact that there is so much military surplus and it will function in a .223 chamber, the manufactors made the leade in the .223 chamber longerto accomidate the 5.56 in commecial rifles to keep the presures down, but it is still shorter than the 5.56 chamber because most commecial rifles WONT be functioning fully automatic. Armalite, Bushmaster, DPMS and others also have their form of the Wylde chamber that Rock River/Wilson uses.
As far as shortening the leade to accurize a rifle, it does little, mostly it just saves the first portion of the lands and grooves because there isnt as much jump at ignition. That is why I said to just rebarrel, you get much better material and workmanship in a name brand barrel than messing with a stock barrel, but thats not to say you cant get a shooter out of a stock gun.
I think they are talking 300win mag here, that headspaces off the belt.

devil dog 03-20-2009 11:33 AM
RE: Loading Close to the Lands
 
The original poster, statjunk, never listed a caliber, I think Ron was talking about his .300Win Mag, which you are right, belted mags are headspaced off the belt. The whole set-back prosess is the same though between the both of them.

Mr. Conservatism 03-20-2009 04:31 PM
RE: Loading Close to the Lands
 
I guess I am fortunate to have purchased most of my bolt rifles a while back. I have no trouble in seating the bullets out to the lands and still getting them into the magazine. Of course, I own rifles in similar action lengths....270's, 30-06's, a 280 and a 25-06. I know some friends who have guns in varmint calibers who can't get them out to the lands. Most of them just put a shell in the chamber and don't feed them from the magazine while hunting wood chucks or praire dogs,so it is a moot point for them.

Mr. C


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