statjunk

Hey guys,

So I've been shooting my Ruger M77 in 300 WM for about a month now using three different powders. I was using IMR ?(I think 3031 not sure), RL 22 and IMR 4064. I was using the Winchester Mag Primers and Nosler Partion 180 gr bullets. I've been neck sizing. I've been setting the bullet to an oal of 3.98-3.40.

I've been getting terrible accuracy and in the last two weeks started to question my shooting ability. A guy at the range this past weekend let me shoot his reloads and if the six shot group didn't measure 3/4" it measured 1/2". After the third shot I literly screamed "One f'ing hole". Mostly in disgust since I've shot so much money down range into 2-3" groups.

So here is what they guy at the range gave me. It was 69gr of IMR 4831 behind a Speer 180gr Spitzer Boattail. He was full length sizing. Also his bullets were a decent bit shorter than mine. I'm going to call him today to find out what kind of primer he was using.

Ok so here's the question.

1) How big of a factor is the full sizing vs neck sizing?

2) How big of a factor is the difference in OAL?

3) I can't help but feel that the most important factor is the bullet. Has anyone else had bad accuracy with Nosler Partitions?

4) Any other advice here.

Thanks

Tom

bigcountry

Generally speers suck for me. thats just me. Your not going to win any matches with partitions but generally, I can get MOA accuracy. I never see consistent subMOA with partitions for some reason.

OAL is very important. In my loading processing, I will try to find a general load with promise and the velocity I want. Then I will try 3-4 different OAL's. But be careful here, too deep OAL, and too long, pressure builds quick. You need to know your max OAL for the gun.

Neck sizing is great, if done with care. Using neck sizers only, can throw the necks out of round. Roll your ammo to see if its straight. On a mirror is perfect, you can see any bullet wobbles. When I see people who say, this load shot great for them one time and now sucks, I usually see 7-10mil of bullet wobble. Same guy is the one who laughed at me for having concentricity gauge, and head and shoulders gauge, telling me he doesn't need that stuff. I grin, shrug my shoulders. I can only attribute his problems to his sizer setup. Maybe he doesn't square his dies? Maybe his shell holder is off tolerance.

Everything contributes to bad accuracy or good. Straight brass, straight seating, load, powder, primer, etc.

If partitions don't work out for you, move on to accubonds, or even speer. If you have trouble with his load, you know its your loading techique. If I find a good dynamic load, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference full vs. neck sizing. I prefer full anyway, just not knocking back the shoulders. 4831sc is a great powder for 300wm and simular to RL22. RL22 is great too. i don't think I would try 3031 or 4064 however.

Bottom line is, know the dimensions of your chamber, know how much your die is setting back the shoulders, know how far you are away from the rifling. Know if your brassis straight, along with seating bullet is straight.

statjunk

Thanks for all the info BC. I know everything matters. I'm going to check the necks for bubbles tonight. I'm looking for some experienced reloaders to conjecture. I don't have a lot of time or money to figure this load out and what to try to get there as quickly as possible.

My oal is way off the lands. I size just long enough to fit in the magazine. Do you think going shorter would make that much of a difference? Accuracy wise?

Tom

bigcountry

I have seen it both ways. I usually start out as long as I can, and shorten to see if I can help my groups. There are usually two OALs in a load that are the most accurate I find. I assume this is for timing of the bullet to exit the barrel.

Pawildman

......I'm not knocking anyone's product here, as I hear other people report decent accuracy with the Partitions, but personally, I have tried them in several different rifles and just have not been able to get them to shoot up to my expectations. I'd try something else, I guess.......
I also agree with what bc said about the powder choices.

HEAD0001

PA and I have had the same experience with Partitions. I never could get them to fly for me.

Seating depth is important. But runout is far more important-IMO. This is the easiest way to put it. The bullet has to be in line with the bore when it jumps from the casing. The distance that it jumps makes no difference as long as it is in line. So seating out to the lands makes it easier because the distance is less, but if it is going into the bore at an angle then you still have trouble.

Neck sizing can cause more problems than it is worth. Neck sizing has to be done perfectly-or it is detrimental.

I have said this before-but I will say it again. IMO the expander ball is the "Root of all evil". Your case is completely unsupported when you pull the expander ball back through the neck. IMO this is where your runout problem starts. If the neck is not straight then you are screwed to start with. No amount of work will help at that point.

Full length sizing can give great consistency if you are meticulous in your sizing.

Personally I fireform my brass. I put a small nick in my brass. I always align this nick up with the feed rail on my bolt rifles. And I align the Headstamp in my single shots. However I only shoot my bolt rifles as a single shot. You can not do it my way if you fill the magazine. I recommend any hunter who shoots a full magazine to FL size.

I am sure there are some rifles out there with perfectly round chambers. But not too many of them. If you do not align your brass when it goes into the chamber then you have problems.

After I fireform I only size the neck with a bushing die(I trim my necks-but I only trim them a little). I do not use the expander ball-I use a Sinclair Sizing mandrel with a little bit of Imperial Sizing Wax. I foind that this puts very little pressure on the shoulder so I have little or no shoulder deformation. This deformation is where I think every reloader has there problem.

Since I only shoot single shot, I seat the bullets deep into the lands. However I have seated my bullets deeper and really have not seen a lot of accuracy difference, but my cartridges are straight.

Case preparation is key. I normally cull 1/2 or more of my cases when I start a new batch of cases. But f you want accuracy-you must do it.

Try the Sierra bullets. Try the 200 grain Game King. Or the 180 grain pill. Or the Nosler Ballistic Tip. Tom.

statjunk

I just got off the phone with speer. The 180gr spitzer boattail is not intended for game larger than a small deer. So I have to find something else now. Man I don't have a lot of time here. May have to start leaving work early and making up the time later at night.

Are ballistic tips recommended for black bears?

I'm definetly going to pick up the gamekings. Any other bullets I may want to try for black bear, high accuracy etc... Hornady Interlock?

I guess I'm saying I'm kind of over the premium bullet thing.

Thanks

Tom

bigcountry

I know I sure wouldn't use gamekings, ballistic tips (unless really heavy like 200gr), hornady SSTs,etc, on bear. I would use accubonds, partitions, TSX's, swift A-frames, TBBC, grand slams, etc. Thats me.

HEAD0001

No No No. You can not quit buying the premium bullets. How will all the writers go on their free trips?? The entire economy could flounder!!

I am not saying premiun bullets are bad. That would be an ignorant thing to say. I am only saying that they could sell them for a Lot Lot Lot less and still make money. Premium bullets are like gas. The price is not based upon what they are worth, the price is based on how much they think they can screw you out of!!

BC and I have argued about this before. And I do respect what he says. However I have been shooting 30 caliber 200 grain SierraGame Kings for more years than I care to talk about. I have not seen any game to this date stand up to one of them(good hit or bad hit). Whether they shedded some of their weight or not. Tom.

statjunk

Saw the price of the accubonds. Not ridiculously bad but not that great either. About $22 per box. From Weidners.

Here is the list of what I'm going thinking of buying:

50 Nosler Accubonds $22
100 Sierra Gamekings $24.25
100 Hornady Interbonds (Let me know if I should!) $39
100 Speer Spitzer Boattails (Target practice) $22.70

So should I try the Interbond? Would I be better off with Interlocks?

Thanks

Tom