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Gas-checks

Old 06-12-2008, 05:19 PM
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Default Gas-checks

I've been looking at hard cast bullets for my heavy +P 45 Colt loads and noticed that some of the bullets have gas-checks and some don't. What are the advantages of gas-checks, and should I be looking for bullets with or without them for my heavy loads?
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Old 06-12-2008, 05:35 PM
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Default RE: Gas-checks

Less leading per higher velocity......

Only way to fly...IMHO.
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Old 06-12-2008, 05:49 PM
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Default RE: Gas-checks

I've cast, loaded and shot thousands and thousands of cast bullets in my 44 mags... You just don't need a gas checked bullet in 44 or 45 cal., as long as the bullets are cast out of hard enough lead alloy so it doesn't lead the bbl...

Iwon a lot of long range pistol matches withthe same load and bullet that i "still" use to this day to hunt with...never needing a GC for any of my 44 mag. loads...

The mould is a RCBS 44-250KT.

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Old 06-12-2008, 07:36 PM
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Default RE: Gas-checks

If you tweak your mix you'll maybeget "hard enough" to reduce HV leading.

Doubt that commercial hard cast can be guaranteed "hard enough" across the board, thus a gas checked slug would be a good idea, if onlyas cheapinsurance....

Whyo didn't mentionpourin' his own.......
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Old 06-12-2008, 08:30 PM
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Default RE: Gas-checks

Leading in a barrel from cast bullets can be caused by several different things.

IMO a good lube is more important than how "hard" your lead is. The longer your barrel is, the harder your lube should be.

I normally cast straight WW in pistol calibers(even in pistol caliber rifles). Including your 45. I am assuming by heavy loads you mean a 300 grain bullet??

A clean barrel to start with is very important. It is also a bad idea to shoot both cast and jacketed bullet in the same rifle.

I only use a GC on bullets going over 1800 fps. I doubt if you are going to push a 45 Colt bullet that fast.

I can shoot straight WW from 1600 to 1800 fps without leading problems.

IMO the GC's are important if you are shooting a fast hot powder and you do not want to have bullet base deformity. But I normally shoot a slower powder and try to achieve case fill, instead of being cheap and shooting too fast of a powder.

GC'sIMO are more for base deformity(which causes leading) problems or issuse. Good velocities are easily obtainable without them.

Another question is what do you consider "Hard"?? What alloy are you using?? Are you water quenchiing, or heat treating your bullets??

I have experimented a good bit with different alloys, and I keep going back to straight WW. But then I like to keep things simple. The only bullets I GC are for my 30 calibers. I did GC some 35 caliber bullets for my 358 Winchester, but I no longer GC them(not needed). Tom.
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Old 06-13-2008, 04:35 AM
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Default RE: Gas-checks

ORIGINAL: wyotimberghost

I've been looking at hard cast bullets for my heavy +P 45 Colt loads and noticed that some of the bullets have gas-checks and some don't. What are the advantages of gas-checks, and should I be looking for bullets with or without them for my heavy loads?
Just buy the GC'd ones, run 'em hard, and don't look back.........
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Old 06-13-2008, 06:18 AM
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Default RE: Gas-checks

ORIGINAL: wyotimberghost

I've been looking at hard cast bullets for my heavy +P 45 Colt loads and noticed that some of the bullets have gas-checks and some don't. What are the advantages of gas-checks, and should I be looking for bullets with or without them for my heavy loads?
Only place you need GC is maybe in a 44mag marlin rifle or a 45-70, 444, or 450. And only if your going to push them to 1900-2200fps.

Most pistol calibers its a waste IMO if your velocity is under 1500fps. I need them in my 460smith. I get serious leading past 1800fps and 325gr bullet. I know if its me, I wouldn't bother for a 45colt even +P loads.
 
Old 06-13-2008, 06:59 AM
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Default RE: Gas-checks

ORIGINAL: bigcountry

ORIGINAL: wyotimberghost

I've been looking at hard cast bullets for my heavy +P 45 Colt loads and noticed that some of the bullets have gas-checks and some don't. What are the advantages of gas-checks, and should I be looking for bullets with or without them for my heavy loads?
Only place you need GC is maybe in a 44mag marlin rifle or a 45-70, 444, or 450. And only if your going to push them to 1900-2200fps.

Most pistol calibers its a waste IMO if your velocity is under 1500fps. I need them in my 460smith. I get serious leading past 1800fps and 325gr bullet. I know if its me, I wouldn't bother for a 45colt even +P loads.
My experience indicates that Big Country is correct. To reduce/prevent leading, you need a combination of two things: Good lubrication for the bullet, and a bullet that is big enough in diameter that powder gases cannot blow by it as it travels down the bore.

If gas blows past the bullet base, it tends to melt the base and sides of the bullet, depositing moltenlead behind it on the surfaces of the bore. In addition, any damage to the bullet base has a serious detrimental effect on accuracy!

I have fired PURE LEAD cast bullets (Lyman 457122HP) in my Ruger No. 1 .45/70 up to 1350 FPS usingboth smokeless powder and black powder, with no leading. The bullets were .001" over groove diameter, and the ONLY lube I used with them was a greased WonderWad (a muzzleloading component) on top of the powder charge. These loads proved very accurate, and even the BP load left very little fouling in the bore. (65 grains of Swiss FFg; 43 grains of IMR 4064.)

In addition, I once loaded up some .375 H&H cases with 60 grains of H4831 and Lyman .375449 gascheck bullets lubed with NRA-formula ALOX lube. MV was right at 2000 FPS, and there was NO LEADING. Accuracy was good. These bullets were cast of straight unheat-treated wheelweight metal at Brinell 9.
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Old 06-13-2008, 06:19 PM
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Default RE: Gas-checks

You only need harder lead if you want to push bullets past 2000 fps. I shoot W/Ws as cast up to 1800fps (most of my rifle loads fall between 1400-1700fps for which I've never had leading problems even with rifle bullets designed to ake gas check without gaschecks installed- crimped on hornady gas checks do giv more accurate loads, Idon't like the lyman checks, I'm afriad they might fall off the bulelt and obstruct the bore.

Most commercial casters make pistol bullets that are way to hard and undersized. Undersized+ too hard means the bullets won't obturate and you get horrible leading. My experience with 9mm commercial cast bullets involved scrubbing alot of lead out of the barrel- never had that problem with my soft lead home cast bullets.

If you are worried about leading, cast the bullets as big as you can get them that will still allow chambering out of soft lead, use a lube that is of the right consistancy for the velocity (lubes put on commercial bullets are often too hard- they do this on purpose so that you have pretty bullets when you get them home and open the box, but oter than that it does you very little favors) 50/50 beeswax/alox lube will take care of 99% of your shooting needs unless you are shooting BPCR. I wouldn't bother with gas checks on a handgun.
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Old 06-13-2008, 08:25 PM
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Default RE: Gas-checks

Whyo has yet to state if he's casting or not, 'till then I'll take his post literally and guess he's talking commercial, as not one word was typed in reference to a "mold"....nor was he talking about rifle loads, gas checked or not.

Humorous how one mans simple question on one subjectbecomes other's pontifications from high atop a stump, about another......

ORIGINAL: Briman

crimped on hornady gas checks do giv more accurate loads
Mmm...maybe 'cause it's a better seal and leads less??

Wewouldn't want that in .45LC +P loadswould we......


ORIGINAL: Briman

Most commercial casters make pistol bullets that are way to hard and undersized. Undersized+ too hard means the bullets won't obturate and you get horrible leading. My experience with 9mm commercial cast bullets involved scrubbing alot of lead out of the barrel.
So a GC on those 9mm bullets to fend a poor seal wouldn't have helped.....interesting. Whyo WAS talking about "hard cast", which is typically quite, how would you put it.....HARD.

I run hard cast GC'd in my LC to facilitate maximum penetration via maximum velocityfor which the bullets purpose denotes....which is likely bustin' through a lot of bone structure before it reaches anything gooey should the need for a sidearm arise. For such needs I'd not even consider soft lead....and I'm guessin' Whyo wouldn't either.

ORIGINAL: Briman

If you are worried about leading, cast the bullets as big as you can get them that will still allow chambering out of soft lead
Now that right there is some funny stuff. Anyone with a lick of casting sense knows a slugged barrelyields barrel dimensions, andcasting + minimal sizing to groove dimensionssports least leading and best accuracy.....

ORIGINAL: Briman
use a lube that is of the right consistancy for the velocity (lubes put on commercial bullets are often too hard- they do this on purpose so that you have pretty bullets when you get them home and open the box, but oter than that it does you very little favors)
BS.........

ORIGINAL: Briman
I wouldn't bother with gas checks on a handgun.
Nope, neither would I now that the Experts have spoken.......
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