60gr 3031 in 45-70 case
 

I was shooting my 45-70 this weekend, and was reading teh loads from Sierra, hodgdon and others, and was shocked to find out they recommend 60+ gr for 300gr bullet. I can barely fit 58gr in there before I am crunching kernals, and can't seat further than 2.54" with sierra HP.

I called sierra, and of course they said they had no issues getting 61gr in thier case and loading the bullet to 2.53".

Anybody else????

RE: 60gr 3031 in 45-70 case
 

Try a drop tube That should help.

RE: 60gr 3031 in 45-70 case
 

In my Ruger No.1, I developed a load using the 400-grain Barnes Original Semispitzer (B.C. .389)and IMR 3031. The most powerful, yet acceptably accurate load I came up with was exactly that-60 grains! Yes, the powder is compressed-so what?

MV of this load was 2270 FPS, believe it or don't believe it!! Recoil, 58 foot-pounds. I had to loop my left forefinger over the barrel when firing this load from sandbags to keep the rifle from jumping off the bag! Needless to say, I did NOT adopt this particular load for all-round use. But I would not hesitate to use it on a BIG bear! I put a Limbsaver pad on this gun to help take some of the bite out of the recoil. Naturally, this load would NOT be recommended for the Marlins!!

RE: 60gr 3031 in 45-70 case
 

Well, its a problem eld, because I can't load deep enought to crimp on the cannalure. What kinda brass were you using?

Think I am going to stick with IMR4198. I am getting 2000fps with 47gr of 4198 and 300gr bullet. But only getting 1900fps with 54gr of IMR3031 and 300gr bullet.

RE: 60gr 3031 in 45-70 case
 

Well I was using Remington brass. But since that bullet has no cannelure, I didn't consider crimping, as the ammo was for a single-shot rifle anyway. But some people like to crimp. However, I ran an experiment once using a case full of IMR 4064 in the .450 Alaskan loading for the Winchester Model 71 lever action. I used a small expenadeer button instead of crimping, just letting case neck tension keep the bullets from moving forward under recoil and the powder charge preventing the bullets from going deeper into the case. It worked perfectly in the .450 AK. I don't know if .45/70 cases are thick enough to have enough case neck tension to work this way, and of course, if the powder is TOO compressed, it will push the bullets back out somewhat after you seat them, increasing the overall loaded length of the round. This is a no-no in a lever gun.

You might try IMR 4198-it takes less of it to get the same results you get with IMR 3031. In addition, Alliant RL-7 might work, and it is denser and takes up less space in the case than 3031 does. I've had some good results with RL-7 in the .45/70.

RE: 60gr 3031 in 45-70 case
 

Seriously Eld. What should I expect out of the 45-70 lever with microgroove? Out of 6-8 shots at 100 yards, I usually get a cluster of 3" group with 1 maybe two flyers like 3" away opening the group to 6-7". These flyers are driving me crazy. Am I asking too much from a lever?

I noticed in the barrel after shooting 3031 I have alot of unburnt looking powder. I had anothe fella tell me to try WLRM mag primers to get a better burn.

Here is what I have tried in this gun.The 4198 shoots better overall. And I get the velocity I desire. But still groups are 3" with ocassional flyers. I really desire 2" groups. Thinking of moving to a jacketed 405-430gr bullet. Maybe trying 350gr hornady?

IMR4198 42gr-52gr 300Gr Partitions (2000fps with 46gr of IMR4198 with 40fps spread)
IMR3031 52gr-58gr 300Gr Sierra Prohunter (1800fps with 54gr of 3031 with 25fps spread)

RE: 60gr 3031 in 45-70 case
 

When I had my lever gun in 45-70...I found
Re loader 7 to be the all around power for it
no matter what bullet I used...Wish I had kept
that one...Good luck

RE: 60gr 3031 in 45-70 case
 

Well, picked up some 350gr FL hornady's and remington 405 jackets,sooner or later I will hit 2MOA with this gun.:D Now, got to pick up RL7.

I amaze myself sometime. I will spend 200 dollars in ammo trying to get a 400 gun to work. And after I get past the 100 dollar point, I usually never find it anyway. But thats the persuit..

RE: 60gr 3031 in 45-70 case
 

I don't think you are expecting too much. I once had a nice little Marlin 336 in .35 Remington. I reworked it to improve accuracy using a "how-to" article in some magazine or other-can't remember which one! But in addition to improving the trigger pull, one of the modifications was to remove the barrel/magazine tube band from the muzzle end of the barrel, and cutthe magazine tube fromfull-length to 2/3 length. In addition, Irelieved the receiver end of the magazine tube where it contacts the receiver, so that the magazine tube doesn't push any harder on the receiver when the barrel is cold than it does after the barrel begins to heat up and expand, moving the magazine tube further away from the front of the receiver and thus placing less upward pressure on the barrel via the magazine tube hanger. When this happens, you can have vertical stringing. There may have been some other changes too, but if so, I just don't remember them.

When I was done, this rifle would shoot MOA with both 180-grain Speer handloaded flatnose bullets, and the RCBS cast 200-grain .358" flatnose gascheck bullets as well.(This 200-grain cast gascheck bullet was also a great performer in the .357" Magnum with 9 grains of 2400!)

My .45/70 is a Ruger No. 1 with 1/22" twist. I have never gotten it to shoot well with 300-grain bullets-IMO, they are too light. BUT, it will shoot well with the Lyman-Gould cast .457122HP, which cast from wheelweights comes out at 342 grains from my mould. This rifle also does well with the 400-405 weight bullets from Barnes, Speer, and Remingon. I too had large groups and fliers with 300-grain bullets - I don't like 300-grain bullets in .45-caliber rifles! Their sectional density is too low for use on anything bigger than deer, anyway!

I'll bet your rifle will shoot heavier bullets better too.

RE: 60gr 3031 in 45-70 case
 

Thanks eld. I loaded up some last night. I really want to try 400gr speers or 405gr remingtons. Some are telling me for the 405gr rems, it doen't have a cannalure, so they use something like 3031 and basically shoot compressed loads and put a taper crimp on it and the bullet doens't move

RE: 60gr 3031 in 45-70 case
 

Hey BC I am using the 350 grain hornaday,I think we talked before on this.My lever shoots them in to 2in moa.I am using Varget @54 grains getting 1950 to 1975 fps from them. My single shot puts them a little closer at about 1.5 moa.

RE: 60gr 3031 in 45-70 case
 

Thanks dan, I do have some varget on hand.

RE: 60gr 3031 in 45-70 case
 

BC - I am using RL7 too and the Hornady 350 gr Interlock in my Guide Gun. I never really measured my groups out of this rifle but I'm pretty sure they weren't 3". Maybe closer to 2" - 2 1/2". And the way I see it, that's just fine. This is my 'close in' rifle anyway. If I plan on shooting more than 100 yds, I'll grab one of my other rifles.

RE: 60gr 3031 in 45-70 case
 

You guys just keep whetting my appetite....I just bought an 1895 Marlin 45/70 and haven't even got a chance to clean the barrel out yet. I bought a box of factory ammo to get it on paper with, dies, 350 gr. Hornadys on order. I have most of the powders already on hand. This is just what I needed.....

RE: 60gr 3031 in 45-70 case
 

PA - Those factory loads are wimpy. They are loaded light so they are safe in a trapdoor rifle. Wait till you start reloading for that little rifle with the big hole. Just be sure and check you loading manuals carefully. I know mine has loads for the trapdoors, the Marlins, and the Ruger #1. Loads for the #1 are the hottest and shouldn't be loaded for the other 2. The loads for the Marlin fall in between the 2.

RE: 60gr 3031 in 45-70 case
 

Yes, they are-only around 1300-1350 or so with the 405 grain bullet. BUT, you might be surprised at what that bullet will do going that slow! The main problem at that velocity is the mortar-like trajectory!

IF you pull thebullets and reseat them with53 grains of IMR 3031 substituted for the factory powder charge, the load takes on a new character!

RE: 60gr 3031 in 45-70 case
 

I'm liking the results I'm getting from Hornady 350gr fn over 50gr IMR4198

RE: 60gr 3031 in 45-70 case
 

Holy cow, thats a powerful load, approaching max for even 43KPSI.