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Non-Handloader Needs Handloader Expertise!!

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Non-Handloader Needs Handloader Expertise!!

Old 02-04-2008, 08:10 PM
  #1  
Spike
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Default Non-Handloader Needs Handloader Expertise!!

I have a new Sako 85 in .25-06. I'm nota handloader, but I do like to get my hunting rifles shooting their best (within the limitations of factory ammo). This one has frustrated me a bit, as none of the five brands/loads that I've tried have printed under 1 moa. My plan was to have Superior Ammo load me up some of the combos that seem to have worked for other users on this forum, but I've gotten hung up on the subject of OAL.
[/align]Obviously, I don't know the exact OAL of my rifle. So I'm torn between either spending the money on an OAL gauge, comparator, modified case, and a box of bullets in hopes of being able to provide Superior Ammo with a precise OAL measurement with which to begin experimenting. Alternatively, I can try some additional factory offerings and hope that I hit on one that works (there are several good ones left).[/align][/align]Given that I don't intend to handload, am I getting too much in the weeds by bothering with the OAL measurement?What if I were to tell Superior to just use SAAMI specs for OAL, and then experimentwithbullet/charge combinations based on those specs? I suppose I could always thenhave him adjust OAL in small increments when I find one that looks promising.[/align][/align]Thoughts? Recommendations?[/align]
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:21 PM
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Default RE: Non-Handloader Needs Handloader Expertise!!

If you don't want to get into reloading, I think you're chasing the wind, frankly. There may be several factors why your rifle isn't shooting under MOA...and none of them have much to do with your ammo.

And maybe you're asking yourself the wrong question. Maybe you should ask yourself what difference sub MOA makes? In a real hunters world it matters very little. I once had a custom .257 Roberts made up on a Mauser action. Beautiful gun and I had great hopes for it. Tried and tried w/bullet & powder combinations on paper and the best I could beat out of it was 2 1/4 inch at 100 yds, even with 3X9 scope. But out hunting the gun took on a different personality. It very seldom missed. I could cut jackrabbits in half at 300+ yards. The rifle just didn't seem to like to shoot paper and didn't try. (Or was it me?)

Either way, what I really wanted was a hunting rifle and it was super at that. So I ask you again, what difference does your new Sako's performance make in the real world? If you got this rifle to hunt with, the problem is only in your head.
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:55 PM
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Default RE: Non-Handloader Needs Handloader Expertise!!

The question of sub-MOA is both esoteric and very, very tired. It's my goal, however, and we all gotta have goals!






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Old 02-05-2008, 07:47 AM
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Default RE: Non-Handloader Needs Handloader Expertise!!

Well, here's just a thought.....Have you talked to the people at Superior and told them of your situation? I don't know, but perhaps they would take your gun and work with it to find what you want...but bottom line is if that was to happen, you would be shooting custom made ammo anyhow. Same as reloading. Even IF they could find a combo to your liking. My personal feeling is that most factory rifles just don't shoot sub-MOA with factory ammo. It usually takes a combination of gun tweaking and handloading to reach this goal. I would say that if your other rifles shoot sub-MOA with out-of-the-box and factory ammo use, you have been fortunate.
I guess I'd continue to try what factory ammo is left to see if you can hit your goal. Also, remember that a load that shoots well at say, 60 deg., may not shoot that well at 25 deg. There are just SOOOOO many variables in this stuff .
However, good luck with your quest....let us know how you make out.
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:56 AM
  #5  
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Default RE: Non-Handloader Needs Handloader Expertise!!

ORIGINAL: Pavomesa

If you don't want to get into reloading, I think you're chasing the wind, frankly. There may be several factors why your rifle isn't shooting under MOA...and none of them have much to do with your ammo.

And maybe you're asking yourself the wrong question. Maybe you should ask yourself what difference sub MOA makes? In a real hunters world it matters very little. I once had a custom .257 Roberts made up on a Mauser action. Beautiful gun and I had great hopes for it. Tried and tried w/bullet & powder combinations on paper and the best I could beat out of it was 2 1/4 inch at 100 yds, even with 3X9 scope. But out hunting the gun took on a different personality. It very seldom missed. I could cut jackrabbits in half at 300+ yards. The rifle just didn't seem to like to shoot paper and didn't try. (Or was it me?)

Either way, what I really wanted was a hunting rifle and it was super at that. So I ask you again, what difference does your new Sako's performance make in the real world? If you got this rifle to hunt with, the problem is only in your head.
This gentleman is correct. Basically, IF a rifle fails to shoot well, it is generally due to poor bedding of the barrel in the stock. Once you have eliminated that possibility, you might be able to develop some very accurateloads for it by working with the ammunition, but my experience has been that in order to do this, you have to work withthe individual rifle, and develop a load that it shoots well IN IT.

It is possible to find, nce in awhile,a particular lot of factory ammunition that is accurate enough to meet your standards. But this can be very elusive, as well.

I have also found that when usingvery accurate bullets in handloads, vaiation in powder chargeweight most often will give you rewarding results pretty quickly, after which additional improvement in accuracy may result fromsuch refinements as variation in seating depth, primer types, etc. But another problem arises in the fact that to obtain the ultimate accuracy a given rifle is capable of means changing only ONE VARIABLE at a time! Otherwise, how do you know what change made the accuracy difference? This again requires working with YOUR RIFLE and reloading equipment. If someone else gives you a combination that proves accuratein your rifle, that is a fortunate accident. I would never try to tell a person what load will work well in that person's rifle unless I have a chance to develop a load for him/her using that rifle.....
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Old 02-06-2008, 07:47 PM
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Default RE: Non-Handloader Needs Handloader Expertise!!

Extremely well put.
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Old 02-06-2008, 08:34 PM
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Default RE: Non-Handloader Needs Handloader Expertise!!

OAL

Do you have any type of caliper measuring device? You also need to purchase the type of bullets you want to shoot. Here is a simple way to get the maximum OAL for your rifle.

Close your bolt on your rifle and putyour gun cleaning rod from the muzzle down the barrel until it stops. Note the general location of the gun cleaning rodat the point it leaves the end of the barrel. Pull it out and place a piece ofmasking tape around the the rod in this general area. Re enter therod into the barrel and take a sharp pencil and mark on the tapea line where the rod exits the barrel.

Next pull your bolt anddrop a bullet of your loading choice down from the back of the receiver. It will stick in the head of the chamber as it enters the barrel.Carefully reinsert the cleaning rod with another piece of masking tape wrapped around the cleaning rod about 2 1/2 to 3 in below the other piece of tape (approximate length of a 25 06 cartrige) around the rod. Slowly lower it into the barrel until it just touches the tip of the bullet lodged in your barrel. Take the pencil and mark another line at the point it exits the barrel.

Knock the bullet out of the barrel with the rod. Pull the rod and measure the distance between the lines. This the the maximum overal length (OAL). Your loads should be loaded approximately 10 thousands of an inch shorter than this length.


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Old 02-07-2008, 02:15 PM
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Default RE: Non-Handloader Needs Handloader Expertise!!

In order to get the maximum accuracy out of a particular gun you just about have toreload: Precision re-load at that.
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