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RE: 45-70 Suggestions
ORIGINAL: statjunk ORIGINAL: bigcountry Here is what I did when working up loads for my 45-70. Since there was such a huge range to load powders like IMR4198, I started at 43gr, then loaded some 45's, then some 47's, 49's, and 51's. I like to load up 6 of each. I will usually load up my starting load at 9. Here's the reason. I like to have at least 2-3 fouling shots and to get sighted in enough. If I get a good group, I would like to repeat it. If I get two good groups with a load, I know it has promise, and never time I load around that load and finallize it second trip out. Thanks for the tip on making 9 for your first set. I'll also be sighting in this rifle when I'm out there. So I should be able to get the rifle pretty close in with 3 rounds. With your system. Where in the process do you clean? Remember that I've never shot a lead bullet before. So I don't know what kind of fouling I'm going to be seeing. How does the non-jacketed bullet react in the barrel? Thanks Tom At one time long ago, for screamer rifles that copper fouled a bunch, I would clean every time I changed the load. Waste of time. In fact, it caused more issues than it solved. |
RE: 45-70 Suggestions
Anybody want to comment on the 425gr bullets and the load data for it?
Tom |
RE: 45-70 Suggestions
ORIGINAL: statjunk Anybody want to comment on the 425gr bullets and the load data for it? Tom Since 425gr is such an oddball, I would call the vender you bought it from. I have Oregon Trail data for a 430gr gas checked cast and they say in modern guns 45gr-52.5gr with velocity at 1900fps at 52.5. But holy cow, after 45gr, thats a whole lot of beating your shoulder. I suggest starting at 40gr, and work up to 45, and see how you like it. If you really want some more bang bang, next time out, try some more. IMR3031 is such a slow burning powder for the 45-70, its fairly safe because you usually run out of case space before you go dangerously overpressure. Out of Handloader Mag Aug 2003 edition,Brian Pearceclaim is modern Marlins can easily handle 43.5KPSI and 444 Marlin can handle 44,000CUP. Where a Ruger #1 can handle 50KPSI or more. So there is a big contraversy, about 45-70 data. According to the article in which I have the upmost confidence in Brian's info, Marlin Model 1881 models can only handle 20,000CUP or the same as 1873 trapdoors. And that cooresponds to your typical factory loads. A pre nickel winchester 1886 loads should be limited to 28KPSI. Marlin 1895 (made 1895-1915) should also be limited to loads 28KPSI. Smokeless era Winchesters 1886 with nickel steel barrels can withstand loads 35K-40KPSI. Post war levers such as Marlin 1895 (1972 to present) and Jap brownings can withstand loads 43,500PSI. So you can see why the various mfg. take cautious approaches to data. Hornady, Nosler, Barnesand even Sierra has fairly hot loads for the the Modern lever . Lymans, and speer, take the very conservative road when it comes to lever and does not differienate between Pre 1972Marlins and post, and thier loads are very low velocity. But according to alot of gun writers like Brian Pierce, there is a difference, where Pre 72 Marlins can only operate up to 28KPSI. In that artical he lists 430gr Oregon Trail with H-322 50gr pushing 1943fps and does not exceed 43,5KPSI. Thats some serious power. He also lists 53gr of H335 with a 430gr Oregon Trail cast at 1841fps and does not exceed 35KPSI. |
RE: 45-70 Suggestions
Thanks BC. I think tonight I might get to trimming some cases. One step at a time. In the meantime I'm going to call Tommy at Lead heads and see what he thinks I should be putting behind the 425 gr. bullet.
Thanks Tom |
RE: 45-70 Suggestions
Talked to Tommy at Leadheads. He claims there is no need to do anything but the following.
300gr bullet use 51gr of IMR 3031 425gr bullet use 40gr of IMR 3031 Any mention I made of trying something else he says will be a waste of my time. I find it hard to believe but old buggers are rarely wrong. I'm going to try that set up. This is the first time I wished I had a Chrono. Tom |
RE: 45-70 Suggestions
ORIGINAL: statjunk Talked to Tommy at Leadheads. He claims there is no need to do anything but the following. 300gr bullet use 51gr of IMR 3031 425gr bullet use 40gr of IMR 3031 Any mention I made of trying something else he says will be a waste of my time. I find it hard to believe but old buggers are rarely wrong. I'm going to try that set up. This is the first time I wished I had a Chrono. Tom |
RE: 45-70 Suggestions
If you want a mild practice or small game load, try 13.0 grains of Unique with a WW Large Rifle Magnum primer in WW brass use the 405 grain cast bullet. This will give you midl recoil and about 1150-1200 fps. No filler or wads are needed with this load and its suprisingly accurate.
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RE: 45-70 Suggestions
I tried to tell'em that...:D:D:D:D:D:D
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RE: 45-70 Suggestions
Stat, what Leadheads is basically telling you is to treat his cast bullets like jacketed. I've got my doubts about that. I suspect you'll end up coming back to some of the milder loads others have suggested for best accuracy and case life. Plus they are just so much more pleasant to shoot.
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RE: 45-70 Suggestions
Guys, I would say its important to everyone that he shoots the load you shoot, but you ever thought he might want something different? I know I like to get 405gr bullets at least up to 1700fps. Its not that bad on your shoulder, and is some serious horsepower. Some folks like kicking it up to 2000fps. Hey, its their fun and thier hobby.
But James is now sitting in the corner shaking his head violently, saying, "there's no need for that much velocity". |
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